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What would happen if I sent in 5 FA-10s in the same calendar year
- Thread starter Amurr
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amb
NES Member
I don't get the impression that the people who scan and file them care hardly at all.
A friend of mine sent in a batch of 15 or so once and nothing at all came of it, but that was only a batch of acquisition registrations. It might be a different story if they were outgoing face-to-face transfers, where the five+ transfers would be immediate evidence of something contrary to state law.
A friend of mine sent in a batch of 15 or so once and nothing at all came of it, but that was only a batch of acquisition registrations. It might be a different story if they were outgoing face-to-face transfers, where the five+ transfers would be immediate evidence of something contrary to state law.
For transfers, or just registrations? You can register as many things as you want.
Transfers are 4/calendar year.
In practice I have heard from people that exceeded the limit and nothing bad happened. (I ran into one guy at a gun shop that was unrepentant about it too) I wouldn't want to test your luck, though... the penalty is whatever it is specified in the law, and I know it's not something trivial.
-Mike
Transfers are 4/calendar year.
In practice I have heard from people that exceeded the limit and nothing bad happened. (I ran into one guy at a gun shop that was unrepentant about it too) I wouldn't want to test your luck, though... the penalty is whatever it is specified in the law, and I know it's not something trivial.
-Mike
HooVooLoo
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Whoa, hang on a min. I must not be reading this correctly, with regard to the idea of 4 per calendar year...
WTF is this bit of the law saying?
Paraphrased and contracted to make it easier to read on how I am reading it...
Whoever in a series of transactions within a twelve month period transfers possession of three or more firearms is (will):
(1) Be punished by a minimum term of imprisonment of three years but not more than ten years in the state prison...
This would seem to indicate that without a dealer license, a person can legally transfer only two firearms per calander year.
What am I missing?
Is it the "except as provided by law" bit, from a different section, that allows us to do up to four? And if so, what on earth is the above statute trying to prevent? It wouldn't seem to fit within any other paradigm of legal transfer.
WTF is this bit of the law saying?
Paraphrased and contracted to make it easier to read on how I am reading it...
Whoever in a series of transactions within a twelve month period transfers possession of three or more firearms is (will):
(1) Be punished by a minimum term of imprisonment of three years but not more than ten years in the state prison...
This would seem to indicate that without a dealer license, a person can legally transfer only two firearms per calander year.
What am I missing?
Is it the "except as provided by law" bit, from a different section, that allows us to do up to four? And if so, what on earth is the above statute trying to prevent? It wouldn't seem to fit within any other paradigm of legal transfer.
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Yes, but he was using FFLs to do the transfers for him (perfectly legal) after he maxed out his 4/year sales on January 3rd.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
j/k about the date he maxed out, but serious about the rest.You don't need to prove squat about where/when you bought them if you are "moving your guns into MA". You already own them, made the mistake of NOT bringing them with you (in which case you wouldn't be filing FA-10s) and now just need to register them.
When I was on my C&R kick (had recently received my first C&R) and it was before the AG hammered out-of-state dealers/distributors, I was ordering such that I think that I stuffed one envelope with 3 or 4 registrations at least once. I've also been in dealers' stores (back before MIRCS) and seen them stuff envelopes with many FA-10s for the day's transfers/sales.
CHSB folks are busy opening envelopes and scanning the forms. I really don't think they sit there with a cheat sheet or plug your name in with a total of how many came in today's envelope.
Joe G
NES Member
If you're moving into the state you don't have to register what you bring with you. If you're selling what you brought into the state then you have a 4/year limit.
Agreed. But it would be trivial to write a script that runs periodically and checks the database for someone who has sold more than X guns per year. The data is there if they want to mine the database.
It'd also be trivial to write a script to check for a newer FA-10 on the same S/N gun and void out the prior one in the database . . . but they just aren't about to do that either.
Last I knew though, you can't mine gold out of landfills. A script also won't detect if someone is playing games with the system, either. It would also explode and go off the rails every time a guy dies and the estate transfers out guns directly to an heir. I realize scriv and others advocate the "attaching legal docs to the forms" but most people don't do this.
-Mike
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You DO NOT NEED purchase info for an FA-10 registration. In a a registration scenario, the "seller" info is left BLANK. DO NOT put the dealer or individual you bought the gun from originally there.... as it's not required- so why give the state info they're not entitled to? A registration only describes two things- you and the gun you are registering, that's it.
-Mike
And even then, that limit is only on FTFs. Say I have 6 guns I want to sell in a year, I can sell 4 of them FTF and the other 2 through a dealer, and it's still legal that way. A gun that goes out from you through a dealer transfer doesn't count against your limit.
-Mike
Lank
NES Member
Yes, I know I am only registering them and I leave the seller info blank. The State is not entitled to ANY information other than I have an LTC, IMHO.
Registration is only useful for confiscation.
Registration is only useful for confiscation.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
I know someone that put 5 FTF FA-10's (not registrations) in the same envelope five or six years ago and "nothing bad happened" yet anyway. This person honestly didn't know about the limit. I wouldn't do it though. It is a lot cheaper to pay a FFL's transfer fee.
Bob
know of a similar problem too. my friends father-in-law (lived out of ma) passed away & left him all of his guns. few rifles, shotguns & pistols. what is he supposed to do? should you send in uncompleted forms just to notify state you have them? thanks
The only limit is the number you can legally sell. There's no limit on the number you can purchase from another licensed resident, from an out-of-state dealer (long guns only), or the number you can inherit. Out-of-state purchases and inheritances are reported as "registrations", which require no information regarding the source, just you as the recipient/purchaser and the guns.
For example, if you inherit 200 guns from an out-of-state decedent, you just put your information on 200 forms along with the information on each gun and submit them. They're complete and you're perfectly legal.
Ken
For example, if you inherit 200 guns from an out-of-state decedent, you just put your information on 200 forms along with the information on each gun and submit them. They're complete and you're perfectly legal.
Ken
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I hate when people say "MA doesnt register GUNS, they register TRANSACTIONS"...anything with the buyers info on it and the gun and serial number on it smells just like a registration of a gun to me.
HooVooLoo
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What else does it smell like? Indulge us. ;-)
If you already own guns and move into MA, you don't have to register the guns that you already own. If we had registration, you would have to.
That's not to say our laws aren't an infringement -- they are. But it could be worse.
The reason I specify that there is a difference is when I think of gun registration as it is frequently called, I think of a compulsory system like the one Michigan had/has in place where having an unregistered handgun is a "crime by default". EG, a system which -forces- a registration scheme. This is a sharp contrast to MA where if an MA dealer f**ks up your FA-10 you're not even liable for that error.
The differences between the standard of evidence required to secure a "failure to report a transfer" charge and a "you have an unregistered gun charge" are enormous, to put it mildly.
-Mike
Good point.
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just because one "class" of firearms isnt registered, doesnt mean it isnt a de facto registration of the rest.
No, but let me put it this way. PD's are aware of the FTF transfer limits, and if you come to their attention for whatever reason and they look, they can file charges/start legal proceedings, it happened to someone I know. It's quite simple for them to run a Firearms Sales Inquiry in CJIS, and they don't need a reason to run it either.
I'm surprised he wasn't charged for dealing sans FFL.
namedpipes
NES Member
A certain officer in Milford "explained" to me the limit was 4 per year period. He was quite intense about the explanation. He seemed to really want to get his point across. (customer service window, not an "official" encounter).
I thanked him, mentioned that the limit applied only to sales and departed. He seemed about to press his point but left it alone. Perhaps he had a glimmer of recollection.
In other words, Police do not necessarily know the correct info on transfers. (which is not to say they DON'T, either)
just for clarification what a calender year is, say i buy and sell a total of 4 guns between march and december, does the new calendar year start january, or is it march?
so freakin confusing and useless.
so freakin confusing and useless.
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