What to do if (god forbid) if you have to use your....

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Adam_MA

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Been thinking about this lately...

Insert your own scenario here:
Outcome: You are in fear for your life, and as a last resort you discharge your weapon. In all reality, the shooting is justifiable. You call the cops to report what just happend...

Now what...

What do you say to the 911 operator (it is recorded) to explain the situation to get help.
Once the police arrive you will be searched, cuffed, and taken to the station. What do you say to them, how much information do you give them, what questions are "safe" to answer before your attorney arrives, will you be hurting your case by refusing to answer any questions?

What steps should be taken by the shooter (you) to ensure your rights are protected, and you don't incriminate yourself.

I would like to hear what everyone has in their "plan" if you should be in this situation. I would especially like to hear from the attorneys in the group.

Maybe it would be nice to have the professional contact information for attorneys who specialize in this area to have on you at all times when you carry. I know I keep a business card of one of the attorneys here on the forum in my wallet at all times.

Discuss.....
 
if i remeber correctly form Darius's class, your to play the role of victim.

use keywords and catchphrases, "he came at me with a knife" "help ive been attacked" use phrases that enforce your position as a victim.
 
From the courses I've taken & LEOs I've spoken to SnakeEye has the correct idea. Don't say much but make sure you let them know you were afraid for your life.
 
what questions are "safe" to answer before your attorney arrives?
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NONE..
the recomendation was to turn into a mute after the initial 911 phone call, if your pressured into answering questions simply say youve been through alot of stress , this is alot to take in, and i dont want to make any statements.. be vigilant, their trained professionals at cajoling info out of people,its their job after all!! be strong and save it for your lawyer. you could be tricked into incriminating yourself without even knowing it, thats why its best to simply say nothing, or keep repeating the above statement till its a broken record and/or your attorney arrives.

the only people you have to convince of your story are a judge & jury, telling the police anything does nothing but potentially work against you at a later date.
your obviously under alot of stress after such a situation and you simply have to accept the fact that you cant trust yourself to speak in your own best interest. just shut up.. :D
 
"I was attacked and in fear for my life. I'm really too upset right now to say anything coherent. I'lll talk with you as soon as I get a chance to calm down."

Trust me, no matter how tough you think you are, you'll be telling the truth.

(Repeat with minor variations as necessary, but in any case no more than 2 or 3 times.)

Just calling your lawer before they even get there and claming up immediately looks too much like you're cool, calm and in control, not the usual behavior for someone who minutes earlier was in justifiable fear for his/her life. When you talk with them later, then you'll have your attorney with you and follow his/her instructions to the letter.

Ken
 
Mas Ayoob had a report on a similar situation that happened to a man in (I believe) Miami. IIRC he was having to evict another man when this man went wild and attacked him. The man was able to retrieve a handgun and kill his attacker. I forget all of the details but when the police came he would not talk to them. However the deceased's wife was hysterical (understandably) and told the police that the man attacked and shot her husband in cold blood (plus several other lies) which the man would not address.

The end result was that the man was arested and went to trial and finally beat the charge after almost two years or some such time frame. This was an ordeal which he might have partially caused by his failure to at least tell his side of the story. But as I said there were some other things he did wrong that helped to hurt his case.

What I took from this was that if, God forbid, you ever have to defend yourself with a firearm, you had better have a plan on how you are going to act and react during the investigation. One of the things I want to be able to do is very briefly explain what I did and why, such as,

"Officer, this man attacked me with this weapon and caused me to fear for my life so I defended myself as best i could. And then I immediately called for police and medical personnel."

And then ask for a lawyer. And probably an EMT to insure that I am not injured.

I consider this to be similar to the situation of having to pull a firearm but having the attack stop before you actually shoot. Your attacker runs away, what do you do? Answer is you call 911 and report the attack to insure that you are the first one to report the incident and not the other guy calling to report a crazy man with a gun.

In summary, a brief statement that puts you in the position of the victim legally defending yourself and don't let someone else get on record first and portray you as the aggressor.
 
First thing, no matter what kind of weapon your attacker had, do not touch it. Watching a cop secure a weapon is fine, but you do not want your prints on the weapon. Most likely it could be unregistered or stolen and hard to prove that your print got on their by securing it.

Make sure that on lookers don't start messing with the attacker whether alive or dead. People become tough when they know the guy can;t do anything back and have witnessed someone kicking a deceased attacker before. Doesn't really make the ME's job easier. On the same note DO NOT MOVE THE BODY!. I don't care if it's in front of a day care and holding up traffic, don;t let anyone else move it either.

Put the safety on your weapon and put it away. Do not wash your hands or wipe the weapon down at all. Yes, your weapon will be taken from you when police arrive. Never pull it out right when they get there. They will ask if it is still on your person. Tell them yes and do not reach for it. Do as the officer instructs. He will most likely take the weapon off your body himself. NEVER put your weapon on the ground or let someone else hold it. Try not to touch anyone that was involved in the situation with you as GSR (Gun shot residue) is transferrable.


Only remain silent if you want to make yourself look guilty. The BEST thing to do is try to find someone who saw the situation and can back your story up. Yes, you have a right to remain silent, but the officer will want to know what has happened so he can know how to proceed. Do not make claims that you are under stress or out of it as that looks like you are saying your not in the right mind. Yes, your first kill is traumatic but keep that part to yourself until the time is right. Don't have a mental breakdown with a gun on you.

Offer specific details as to what has happened. The officer most likely doesn't care that you were eating your cereal this morning and thinking something bad might happen. be straight to the point. ALWAYS contact your lawyer. This doesn't make you look guilty if you are being straight forward with them. Just explain you would feel better if your lawyer was present.

On the 911 call use words like "Defend" make sure you make them know the situation, "Shots fired" "Had to defend self" "CCW" "attacker had weapon" and so on. Make sure there are no suprises for the FOS LEO.
 
well we seem to have some contrary opinions on this

Only remain silent if you want to make yourself look guilty.
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ill stick with the attorneys recomendation and keep my trap shut till his/her arrival. how you look and what you are are two different things. If its a righteous shoot and youve passed the reasonable bystander rule then i would choose to air on the side of caution and not accidentally incriminate myself in some way by blabbing in a hige stress state.
the officers interpretation of the scene isnt irrelevant, but who you need to convinve is a judge & jury & not the duty officer who rolls onto the scene...


let me take a slight twist on this.
suppose and attacker with (insert instrument of death here) lunges claiming hes going to kill you, but when you draw he/she instantly acquiesces dropping their weapon and taking a knee..
Can you legally detain this individual? or would you be charged with kidnapping or some other nonesense? is it within your legal right to physically restrain the individual, say with nylon cuffs till the police arrive so you can reholseter without the police rolling up with you having a drawn weapon (not good).
just random thoughts
 
Can you legally detain this individual?
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How do you propose to detain them? Do you carry handcuffs around with you? Are you going to threaten to shoot them? How would you explain these actions to a responding LEO? It's a bit of a complicated area.

What you can do is to immediately call 911 or your local emergency number, report the assault, and say that the person is still there. But if that person suddenly decides to vacate the area (remember under your scenario there is no threat at this time) how would you keep them there? If you try physical force you have now most likely committed an offense yourself. About the only way you can detain the person is vocally (without a threat, e.g., "Stay put. The Police are on their way."). You would also need to take control of the area (make sure the "instrument of death" remains where it was dropped, identify yourself to the LEOs who arrive, and be able to articulate what happened and the defensive nature of your actions. Here is where a cell phone would come in handy; stay on the line with 911 until the LEOs show up.
 
If you try physical force you have now most likely committed an offense yourself
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thats what i figured and why i asked.

What you can do is to immediately call 911 or your local emergency number, report the assault, and say that the person is still there
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this was assumed the moment you gained control over the situation/assailant
Here is where a cell phone would come in handy; stay on the line with 911 until the LEOs show up
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and if its a camera phone make the criminal say cheese :P

How do you propose to detain them?
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well i wouldnt want to stand there with them at gunpoint when the police arrive,and as you said theres no longer a threat, so legally i really cant..
I dont carry cuffs or anything like that as im not a LEO, but tucking a couple nylon ties into your pocket would be easy enough if you could justifiably and legally use it..
im just trying to figure out how you get from defusing the situation to getting this attempted murderer into the back of a police cruiser LEGALLY and within the scope of my rights...


so your basically just supposed to let the person who just committed attempted murder walk away?

we really have been legislated into a helpless lot of sheep.
 
If the attacker drops whatever the weapon happens to be, that's fine. Don't touch it, don't get close enough to him/her because there's a lot of bad guys out there who know exactly how to disarm you in the blink of an eye.

You yell, and I mean yell at them to hit the deck, face down, arms out straight, palms turned up, legs spread. You call 911 ASAP and tell them what happened. If you can, keep them on the line with you until the police arrive. Just because the perp dropped the weapon, that does not mean they aren't still a threat to you. If they choose to come at you again, having 911 on the line will at least record what's happening should you need it.
 
so your basically just supposed to let the person who just committed attempted murder walk away?
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If you have stopped the attack, and there is no longer any danger to you (or others) then the short answer is yes.

Now, I think that you have the moral authority to detain such a scumbag, but that does not always give you the legal authority to do so. And my answers are framed in my interpretation(s) of the law and how the legal system in the Commonwealth would react. But if someone were to attack myself or my family I would want to stop them and then insure that the law took immediate custody of him in the worst way.

These are some great questions you are asking and it's a subject which those of us who carry need to consider. Well before we may be faced with them.
 
Something to think about....

The chances you will face charges go way up if the person who attacked you is available for statements - if they escape, you may actually be better off (from a legal and financial point) than if they are not caught and prosecuted.

If they didn't use a firearm, there is even the chance they'll be given some sort of a deal if they testify against you .... and you can count on their defense counsel being with them every step of the way explaining what they need to do in order to press charges againse you.
 
You folks do know the difference between Police and Citizens, right?

A police officer may arrest for MISDEMEAANORS and Traffic offenses. You may arrest/detain FELONY suspects. Now, it may not be the wisest thing to do.

Boston advocated silence. I suggest simply stating the situation to the officers when they arrive, then stating you're waiting for your attorney before further comments. I think that will work. Definitely be careful about incriminating yourself, and remember, it's "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".
 
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