What NOT to do

It was used by some of the coaches and the PMI when I was in bootcamp. The bolt carrier groups were removed prior to doing so, though.

EDIT: I'm referring to marksmanship training with the M-16A2, just to be clear.
 
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There's nothing wrong with checking a students sight alignment if the cylinder is swung open on a revolver. Nothing.

Don

???? Why swing the cylinder open?? At Tactical Response, where switched on warriors train, they do it with loaded revolvers, cylinder closed, hammer back, finger on the trigger. That way you get used to pointing loaded guns in the faces of friendlies and having the trigger control not to shoot! (usually....)
 
What are they doing wrong????? Pah-lees!

Well, first, when you're a big boy like that you NEVER tuck in your polo! Faux pas! Then those belts? Honey, that is like SO 1985! And white before Memorial Day?????? Quel shock!






Oh, and the gun thingie....should he be doing that?
 
A good friend of mine was in the seal teams in the late 80s/early 90s. One of his teammates ended up paralyzed after a room clearing drill. I guess their methods require that your muzzle be pointed at the guy ahead of you's back at some point. Well, someone didn't follow the safety on/finger off the trigger protocol and someone else ended up paralyzed.

Don

p.s. as far as cylinder open revolver. I tell my students in my classes that its ok to point a firearm in that condition at yourself for things like bbl inspection, to check for a squib, etc. But you NEVER point even an open and empty gun at another person. Unless they invite you to do it, like in a sight alighnment check.
 
But you NEVER point even an open and empty gun at another person. Unless they invite you to do it, like in a sight alighnment check.
I won't do it, period. A press photographer once asked me to point my gun at him so he could get a dramatic picture. I refused and told him it was a safety violation.
 
When I was working as a RO at the very first IDPA winter nationals at the brand spanking new S&W shooting center American Shooter wanted to film some stuff like that.

We RO's went back and forth and agreed to it, provided the entire range was ammo free. We also quadrouple checked the gun. 4 guys confirmed open and empty with their eyes and their pinkee, slide was dropped, triger pulled downrange, then shooter posed for the camera with finger off the trigger.

However remember, my initial point was open and empty. Closed is an entirely different thing.

If the cylinder is swung out of a revolver it CAN NOT go off.
 
In a Jim Crews class, we were taking a break while one shooter
remained at the line with Jim to solve some problem. Jim asked the shooter to unload. He did that and chamber checked the gun. Jim Crews checked that the gun was unloaded. A police officer in the class came up to watch them. This officer is a dealer on this forum and a very able shooter. Crews asked him to check the gun. He did and said that it was unloaded.
When the shooter pointed the gun at the target as directed by Jim Crews and pressed the trigger, the gun fired. Neither the shooter, Jim Crews or the officer had any idea where the fired round came from.

The moral if this true story is"
All guns are always loaded

For extra points, who was the police officer??
 
In a Jim Crews class, we were taking a break while one shooter
remained at the line with Jim to solve some problem. Jim asked the shooter to unload. He did that and chamber checked the gun. Jim Crews checked that the gun was unloaded. A police officer in the class came up to watch them. This officer is a dealer on this forum and a very able shooter. Crews asked him to check the gun. He did and said that it was unloaded.
When the shooter pointed the gun at the target as directed by Jim Crews and pressed the trigger, the gun fired. Neither the shooter, Jim Crews or the officer had any idea where the fired round came from.
Yup, there's a reason for rule #1. Stuff happens.
 
In a Jim Crews class, we were taking a break while one shooter
remained at the line with Jim to solve some problem. Jim asked the shooter to unload. He did that and chamber checked the gun. Jim Crews checked that the gun was unloaded. A police officer in the class came up to watch them. This officer is a dealer on this forum and a very able shooter. Crews asked him to check the gun. He did and said that it was unloaded.
When the shooter pointed the gun at the target as directed by Jim Crews and pressed the trigger, the gun fired. Neither the shooter, Jim Crews or the officer had any idea where the fired round came from.

The moral if this true story is"
All guns are always loaded

For extra points, who was the police officer??

Will you count my answer?

It was a very strange guy "in the pink" of his career! [rofl] [laugh2]
 
In my short and limited experience in dealing with people who use firearms frequently, the experienced person who tolerated what are considered unsafe practices was the instructor for my NRA pistol class. He did not allow anything like this. On the range, NO WAY. He did have the class play with and dry fire pistols in a class room. Many of the class members while doing so allowed the pistols to be popinted at someone. I will note the instructor said to not do so, but then said little as the pistols were pointed at other class members and dry fired.

Among the responsible gun owners I've been around, safe practices are paramount. If we don't use the things safely, aren't we giving support to those who want tot ake them away. One incident on the range, involving death or injury, is fuel for the anti-gun lobby. Safe-owners insist on safe practice for many reasons, like their own health and well-being, but protecting the right is another reason.
 
Lens
I am sorry but you are not allowed to answer, because you were there and saw the event in question
You are right when you mention pink, but you could have also mentioned sheep.
That is enough hints about the identity of the mystery police officer.
 
I once had a shooter pull an HK91 out of his truck, removed the mag, and suggest I try the trigger. Without thinking, I racked the charging handle and a round fell on the ground. The owner was much more upset than I was - my only comment was "you were just testing me, right?".
 
A fellow tells this story. He was shooting his AR15 at the range a few years ago. When he was done shooting, he locked the bolt back on his AR15 and put it in his case. While policing his brass, he picked a live .223 round that someone else had left on the range. He tossed that round in his gun case. You can see where this story is headed...

He went home, put the case downstairs, and had dinner with his wife. After dinner he went down to the basement to clean his gun. Prior to field stripping his AR15, he closed the bolt and was just about to dry fire it. He knew it was unloaded, after all, he put it into the case with the bolt back and no magazine. Fortunately, he decided to check the chamber. He pulled back on the charging handle and out flew the live round. While driving home, the live round had apparently rolled around inside the case and found its way into the chamber.
 
If that is the best way to check the sites cant you open the safety, use a cable lock and run the cable down the front of the barrel, out of the rear of the barrel and lock it?

That way the action is open, you can see 6 empty holes and the barrel has a metal cable going down it which takes up almost the entire barrel width proving there is nothing in the gun?

Just a thought.......I'd rather laser bore sight the firearm then fine tune it with live ammo.
 
I won't do it, period. A press photographer once asked me to point my gun at him so he could get a dramatic picture. I refused and told him it was a safety violation.

100% agree. While at a bullseye match and shooting for the Guard team, a photog wanted to stand in front of the line and take a pic. I refused.

After conferring with the RO, the line was cleared, all weapons made safe (and checked) by line officers, the photog got his pic with me pointing a totally empty weapon directly at him.

Self defense is one thing. Photo Op is another. Maybe its just me, but I just don't like pointing a weapon at a person unless it is necessary and I intend to use it. End result was the photog got his pic and no harm done. It still made me feel uncomfortable. Just didn't like the scene. Perhaps I was just being over-critical? Don't know. [grin]
 
After conferring with the RO, the line was cleared, all weapons made safe (and checked) by line officers, the photog got his pic with me pointing a totally empty weapon directly at him.
I just won't do that. Lots of people have been shot accidentally by guns that people thought were empty. The second rule, never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy, holds true whether the gun is loaded your not. I won't violate that rule because some idiot photographer wants to get a photo. If I screw up and have an AD, I don't want to have his death on my conscience.

There are times when you just have to take calculated risks. But taking such risks for a pointless reason, i.e., because some photog wants a picture, isn't one of those times.
 
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I just won't do that. Lots of people have been shot accidentally by guns that people thought were empty. The second rule, never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy, holds true whether the gun is loaded your not. I won't violate that rule because some idiot photographer wants to get a photo. If I screw up and have an AD, I don't want to have his death on my conscience.

There are times when you just have to take calculated risks. But taking such risks for a pointless reason, i.e., because some photog wants a picture, isn't one of those times.

+1

same here. wouldn't do it. i believe in the magic bullet fairy that places rounds in chambers while you sleep. I really do. I even (by force of habit) check a gun before putting it back in the safe, after I cleaned it! can't help it. part safety fanatic-part OCD.
 
i believe in the magic bullet fairy that places rounds in chambers while you sleep. I really do. I even (by force of habit) check a gun before putting it back in the safe, after I cleaned it! can't help it. part safety fanatic-part OCD.
Every time you pick up a gun you must check the chamber. Every single time. The one time you don't is the time that the bullet fairy will have done its magic.
 
I just won't do that. Lots of people have been shot accidentally by guns that people thought were empty. The second rule, never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy, holds true whether the gun is loaded your not. I won't violate that rule because some idiot photographer wants to get a photo. If I screw up and have an AD, I don't want to have his death on my conscience.

There are times when you just have to take calculated risks. But taking such risks for a pointless reason, i.e., because some photog wants a picture, isn't one of those times.

That's my point. I just don't buy it...especially for a photo op.
 
class room. Many of the class members while doing so allowed the pistols to be popinted at someone. I will note the instructor said to not do so, but then said little as the pistols were pointed at other class members and dry fired..

I heartily disagree with this method. If a person can point a pistol/revolver at another person during training/practice, it belittles all range safety. Just cannot buy it. If it was OK during training, must be OK in house...with family. Cannot buy it.
 
Every time you pick up a gun you must check the chamber. Every single time. The one time you don't is the time that the bullet fairy will have done its magic.

And the bullet fairy is not always "good". Best not to rely on a "fairy". [grin]
 
I won't do it, period. A press photographer once asked me to point my gun at him so he could get a dramatic picture. I refused and told him it was a safety violation.

I wholeheartedly agree. In this case, the "brass" were looking for a photo, therefore the official photog. Did not like it, and made things as safe as possible. From my own perspective, I knew the weapon was safe....it was mine. Neither here nor there, I don't believe it should be done other than a remote with no human involved.
 
Brownells sells an orange plastic drop in "safety barrel".

You pop it into your gun when you are running a course and now know you have a safe gun. Its better than a blue gun because you can still rack the slide and dry fire it.

It also sticks out beyond the end of the slide a bit to further confirm that the gun has this bbl installed.

Its a clever idea. I'm going to pick one up for my classes one of these days.

Don
 
I don't even like to look at a picture of someone pointing a gun at me. I see them on the interweb all the time, and I always comment. Most people don't get it when I complain.
 
A good friend of mine who I shoot with has another friend who is on the regional SWAT team. He also used to be on the state narcotics task force. Finally he is a Master level IDPA shooter.

So he's accomplished. My friend is very very safety conscious and has told me that this other guy makes him nervous.

He said that the transgressions are not the result of carelessness or slopiness but an intentional tolerance for a greater degree of risk.

He said that his friend is loose about the whole 180 thing, but very very strict as far as trigger finger discipline. He was told that their training ivolved being down range of shots fired, so the first time someone was shooting at you you would be "used to it".

I'll pass.

Don
 
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