What makes the AR-15 style rifle the weapon of choice for mass shooters?

In terms of a wackjob killing unarmed, unprotected people that can't escape, ultimately none of this really matters. Guys with a few handguns have wiped out
tons of people.

-Mike

Make no mistake, I don't disagree with you. But if we are talking 'lethality' of a weapon system, the AR and .223 is not the platform. It was never designed to be a lethal round from what I've read/heard/urban legend. It obviously does damage, but nothing like a 7.62 round of any caliber/type.
 
Make no mistake, I don't disagree with you. But if we are talking 'lethality' of a weapon system, the AR and .223 is not the platform. It was never designed to be a lethal round from what I've read/heard/urban legend. It obviously does damage, but nothing like a 7.62 round of any caliber/type.

Lol then someone should tell all the people that have been easily felled by 5.56 that it's not lethal. [laugh]

Depends on the terminal wound ballistics of the round in question and the circumstances. Every loading is different. There are 5.56 rounds that can make some 7.62 x 39 rounds look retarded. A lot of 7.62 x 39 tends to just drill holes. On the other hand if you have something like Yugo M67 (a very popular 7.62 x 39 round but corrosive) that stuff tends to yaw and tumble when it hits people. Then going back, stuff like M855 is actually crap at close range, because it just drills holes. (most of the criticism of 5.56 is based off this, IMHO. ) M193 on the other hand tends to yaw and causes larger wound cavities, etc. Then if you move to something like MK262 mod 0/1 (or other similar heavy OTM loads) and the results are even better than M193, where the yaw starts far earlier upon entry.

Obviously regardless of what cartridge you use even some of the poorest terminal ballistic performers though are still perfectly lethal in the right (or in some cases, wrong) hands.

-Mike
 
Make no mistake, I don't disagree with you. But if we are talking 'lethality' of a weapon system, the AR and .223 is not the platform. It was never designed to be a lethal round from what I've read/heard/urban legend. It obviously does damage, but nothing like a 7.62 round of any caliber/type.

Lol then someone should tell all the people that have been easily felled by 5.56 that it's not lethal. [laugh]

Depends on the terminal wound ballistics of the round in question and the circumstances. Every loading is different. There are 5.56 rounds that can make some 7.62 x 39 rounds look retarded. A lot of 7.62 x 39 tends to just drill holes. On the other hand if you have something like Yugo M67 (a very popular 7.62 x 39 round but corrosive) that stuff tends to yaw and tumble when it hits people. Then going back, stuff like M855 is actually crap at close range, because it just drills holes. (most of the criticism of 5.56 is based off this, IMHO. ) M193 on the other hand tends to yaw and causes larger wound cavities, etc. Then if you move to something like MK262 mod 0/1 (or other similar heavy OTM loads) and the results are even better than M193, where the yaw starts far earlier upon entry.

Obviously regardless of what cartridge you use even some of the poorest terminal ballistic performers though are still perfectly lethal in the right (or in some cases, wrong) hands.

-Mike
 
We used to debate the lethality of the 5.56 round when I was in the Army. None of us really knew, though, other than the Gulf War vets, and a lot of them never really knew whether they’d hit anyone.

I was prejudiced against 5.56, mostly because I disliked the M16/M4.

Then the DC Sniper reeled off 17 one-shot kills. That changed my mind.
 
An old friend of mine used to have a saying .
"That must be your A-hole talking son , cause your mouth ought to know better."
 
In the past 20 or so years, I've met a lot of shot people (over 100 I'm sure). Others here may have met more.

IMHO: Factors...

#3.... Circumstances/ surroundings.... as others here point out: soft targets/ GFZs

#2.... Shot placement: take a .22 right above the left eyebrow and you die (seen that). Blow a softball-sized hole in the right side of your face and miss all the vital structures, you live, but wish you didn't (seen that too.)

and.....

#1 Luck.... good or bad..... most shot people are not shot by people who are experts in shot placement.

I think the ballistics discussion is cool but its not a factor.

Also, ER docs do not shit bricks about 5.56 rounds.... Trust me. In the ER, bullet holes are bullet holes.
 
2200 fps. That seems to be the velocity that separates temporary and permanent wound cavities. Rounds traveling above that velocity can have serious affects on soft tissue and organs not directly impacted by the round itself. We are stretchy, soft, gelatinous blobs and that 2200 fps threshold makes a difference. Of course, shot placement matters. A slower round that expands has a great chance of doing significant harm as well. As many have said before, hard vs. soft targets would seem to have the greatest bearing on body count.
 
2200 fps. That seems to be the velocity that separates temporary and permanent wound cavities. Rounds traveling above that velocity can have serious affects on soft tissue and organs not directly impacted by the round itself. We are stretchy, soft, gelatinous blobs and that 2200 fps threshold makes a difference. Of course, shot placement matters. A slower round that expands has a great chance of doing significant harm as well. As many have said before, hard vs. soft targets would seem to have the greatest bearing on body count.
Excellent points here.... true as I understand it. In my earlier post I was only trying to rebut the reported Pelly assertion that ER docs live in fear of AR-15s... absolute BS. ER docs try to keep the patients alive until they can get to the OR.... A bullet hole is a bullet hole. Trauma surgeons do care about and study this stuff. But even they only deal with what they find when they open the patient up. And I'm only telling you what you already know, when I say that there is politics in medicine.... Plenty of doctors own guns... and ARs.... They don't get quoted on CBS.
 
Didn't Revolutionary and Civil War era ammunition cause pretty horrific damage to the human body?

Since the primary utility of firearms is to kill things, wouldn't it be expected that people would be drawn to firearms that do so most efficiently thus improving their own survival chances during armed conflict? Wait, you mean people don't generally focus their attention on the least effective tool for the job?
 
Didn't Revolutionary and Civil War era ammunition cause pretty horrific damage to the human body?

Since the primary utility of firearms is to kill things, wouldn't it be expected that people would be drawn to firearms that do so most efficiently thus improving their own survival chances during armed conflict? Wait, you mean people don't generally focus their attention on the least effective tool for the job?

The effect of a round ball or Minnie ball hitting bone was pretty freaking gruesome.
 
It’s the old dichotomy.

Give a projectile enough mass and it’ll do serious damage. But it’ll also have trouble accelerating, like the Minie.

Or? Shrink the projectile and make it go faster. It’ll deliver as much (or more) energy and you can carry more. They figured that out in the 1880s.
 
Not in New York. In the #1 case, the weapon of choice was airplanes. In the #2 case, it was one United States dollar's-worth of gasoline.
If we were judging by amount killed, yes, but the media of course wants to demonize firearms and especially the AR and therefore they're trying to give the impression that every time there's a mass murder an AR is used.
 
Back in the late 80's and into the 90's the AK-47 was branded as the weapon of choice for mass carnage. It was Daniel Partick Purdy who killed school kids in Cali with one that got all this started. In reality it's whatever the media can use to drum up anti 2a hype about to destroy our rights. There is no media outrage when someone (ISIS supporter) rents a truck from Home Depot and mows down and intentionally kills 10 people. Where is the outrage of how easily such a dangerous vehicle can be rented an indiscriminately murder people? It doesn't fit their narrative or goal so there is none.
 
Too long to find out the top-5 AR manf's used in "mass shootings."

I will say this: Cynthia Bir is a DUDE! She looks like Tony Little of lame exercise equipment fame.


As far as Tony's, er, Cynthia's argument, all cars should be mandated to travel no faster than 30mph. Because faster (and bigger, for that matter) cars cause more damage and are deadlier. Isn't it worth it if we save just one child????
 
Yep,right now! Scott Pelly again. He states that in Americaa the AR15s are common killer rifles. :mad:
 
Not in New York. In the #1 case, the weapon of choice was airplanes. In the #2 case, it was one United States dollar's-worth of gasoline.
No problem. Ban them all. Get them off the street. Like Japan. Then someone will just burn down the next nightclub (or school, or church or whatever) and kill just as many, with less chance of survival.

P.S. - and &$a% Scott Pelly and the rest of the CBS scum.
 
The "mass shootings" they always refer to are about a dozen over the course of several years.

Yet the media NEVER speaks about the mass shootings that under their made up definition occure weekly in cities like Chicago..

For instance, on Saturday in that city, the following evenrts happened...

Saturday 6/12
12:10a 7600 S Marquette, South Shore, M/21
1:10a 3700 W Augusta, Humboldt Park, M/22
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, F/29 - Fatal
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, M/23 Wounded
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, M/23
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, M/26
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, M/27
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, M/30
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, M/32
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, F/34
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, M/41
2:05a 7500 S Prairie, Grand Crossing, M/46

2:05a 4300 S Champlain, Grand Boulevard, M/42
10:20a 11800 S Eggleston, West Pullman, M/35
Media ignored it all. Handguns used...
 
The "mass shootings" they always refer to are about a dozen over the course of several years.

Yet the media NEVER speaks about the mass shootings that under their made up definition occure weekly in cities like Chicago..

For instance, on Saturday in that city, the following evenrts happened...


Media ignored it all. Handguns used...
Yes, they always ignore what happens in democrat run cities and except for Vegas the overwhelming # of public mass shootings with the highest body counts have been with handguns too.
 
The ar15 isn’t the choice of most mass shooters it’s just the one they used to try to justify taking peoples guns away...
And the one you hear on the news.

Even the most liberal media must be racist because they don’t bring up the mass shootings daily and if they do it doesn’t get 1/10 of the attention of the few events where people use rifles
 
He was comparing the speed of the bullets . . . 9mm vs. "AR bullets" (as he called them). One of them he claimed travel 800mph (I think it was the 9mm)! The AR bullets (his terminology) he claimed traveled 3x the speed of sound!

Real accurate piece . . . of shit reporting.
 
He was comparing the speed of the bullets . . . 9mm vs. "AR bullets" (as he called them). One of them he claimed travel 800mph (I think it was the 9mm)! The AR bullets (his terminology) he claimed traveled 3x the speed of sound!

Real accurate piece . . . of shit reporting.
Well, 1200 FPS is just over 800 mph. And 3000 FPS is roughly 3 times 1125 FPS, so ball park numbers check out.
 
Pelley still pushes the bullets 'explode' shit, too. He waited to get that in there. Then the woman parrots it. Stopped watching there.

However, when I stand on my soap box I feel like Demi Moore in a Few Good Men, 'I strenuously object'. Then I end up having the judge call the witness an expert. LOL
A post was just made to a video I've watched on YouTube. Scrolling through the comments, I found this one below. Probably fits in with Pelly's comments about the "bullets just explode".
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y88vaxo3mqU&lc=UgjDSx503VkBfHgCoAEC.86_bq5EzQmn9OYxZFdKVwE



J Martin

J Martin

1 year ago
I am aware that this is an old video. We are now aware of the ballistic gel "dieseling effect". The natural fuel contained in typical ballistic gel 'can be detonated' from high speed impact in a somewhat similar manner to diesel being compressed in an engine with no spark plugs. Compress the fuel and bang, it detonates. This tiny detonation or miniature explosion and the resulting smoke and charring effect would probably not occur in the tissues of actual live animals.



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The Machine Gun Channel

The Machine Gun Channel
1 year ago
Bingo!
 
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