What is the legality of a "Target and Hunting" LTC-A?

[Lank]

Is there any legal teeth to this?

 

[kevin9]

Is there any legal teeth to this?

Currently, yes. Per MGL C140 S131(a):

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper;

 

[M1911]

Is there any legal teeth to this?

Yes, there is. If you are caught carrying outside of your restriction:

A violation of a restriction imposed by the licensing authority under the provisions of this paragraph shall be cause for suspension or revocation and shall, unless otherwise provided, be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000; provided, however, that the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply to such violation.

No, the recent SCOTUS decision does not immediately change this -- that will take lawsuits, years, and kilodollars. And, yes, it does suck.

 

[JGreen]

Or a H2259 success!

 

[Lank]

this all reeks of ambiguity and inherent design for entrapment and widespread abuse of police power.

So, if I go to the range at 4 pm on a Sunday, then to a family cook out ending at 10 pm, then it is discovered that a pistol is under my control, what could happen?


It seems to me that hunting and target restricts you from CC?

Why is this tolerated?

 

[Lank]

Yes, there is. If you are caught carrying outside of your restriction:


No, the recent SCOTUS decision does not immediately change this -- that will take lawsuits, years, and kilodollars. And, yes, it does suck.

I'm a committed ally.

 

[dixidawg]

Also, there is very little that you can legally hunt with a handgun in Ma.....

 

[Coyote33]

Also, there is very little that you can legally hunt with a handgun in Ma.....

Squirrels, rabbit, coyote, crow, fox. Not sure about bear or turkey.

 

[Lank]

Let's try to stay on "target" (horrible pun, I know).

 

[dixidawg]

Depends on what zone you are in. Also, you can't even possess a handgun during deer shotgun season in "any woodland or field" even if properly licensed.....

 

[M1911]

this all reeks of ambiguity and inherent design for entrapment and widespread abuse of police power.

That describes most all of MA gun laws.

Why is this tolerated?

Because 1) the MA Supreme Judicial Court has ruled that there is no individual right to keep and bear arms in MA, 2) until the MacDonald decision, we didn't have a SCOTUS ruling to the contrary, and 3) we didn't have (and still don't have) the votes in the MA legislature to change the law.

If you can magically wave a wand that will cause the MA legislature to vote for gun rights, please do so.

 

[Lank]

I dont hunt, just plink

 

[Lank]

Magic wand? I wish.

What we could do is get 10,000 lawful gun owners to rally peacefully at a protest.

The left is where it is today because they know how to organize. I know we all have jobs and cant be professional protesters, but I think we could all find time on a Saturday soon.

 

[Coyote33]

That describes most all of MA gun laws.


Because 1) the MA Supreme Judicial Court has ruled that there is no individual right to keep and bear arms in MA, 2) until the MacDonald decision, we didn't have a SCOTUS ruling to the contrary, and 3) we didn't have (and still don't have) the votes in the MA legislature to change the law.

If you can magically wave a wand that will cause the MA legislature to vote for gun rights, please do so.

We need another one of these again, only get it passed:

SCOTUS Resolution - The senate decided not to take part in the resolution offered by Rep. George Peterson recognizing the Heller decision and so it was offered as a House resolution only. The resolution was amended to remove the references to Article XVII of the Massachusetts Constitution because the U.S. Supreme Court didn't rule on that matter. After being amended, the House voted 115 - 40 to approve the resolution! (See the roll call sheet.) A very strong showing for the recognition of the Second Amendment Ruling.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-happened-7-31?p=542567&viewfull=1#post542567

 

[KMaurer]

So, if I go to the range at 4 pm on a Sunday, then to a family cook out ending at 10 pm, then it is discovered that a pistol is under my control, what could happen?

While it doesn't remove the primary problem, having a firearm under your control isn't in any way a violation of the restriction. It's carrying a loaded firearm that's the problem. If you unload and case or lock the gun during the cookout, you're fine. Unless, of course, you suddenly need your gun for protection, in which case you're probably screwed.

Ken

 

[Lank]

Another question, where in the law is Target and Hunting mentioned? It seems like a standardized control arbitrarily created by Cheifs of Police.

It seems to me that a Cheif can issue a restriction that your LTC A is only valid on Main street on the last Sunday of each month if he wanted to.

 

[Baldkat82]

While it doesn't remove the primary problem, having a firearm under your control isn't in any way a violation of the restriction. It's carrying a loaded firearm that's the problem. If you unload and case or lock the gun during the cookout, you're fine. Unless, of course, you suddenly need your gun for protection, in which case you're probably screwed.

Ken

If he's at a family cookout and therefore on private property, Doesn't the restriction not really matter during said cookout? as long as the property owner is ok with him having the firearms in his possesion?

Obv he'd have to have it unloaded and locked up headed to the cookout...

 

[M1911]

Another question, where in the law is Target and Hunting mentioned?

It isn't.

It seems like a standardized control arbitrarily created by Cheifs of Police.

It seems to me that a Cheif can issue a restriction that your LTC A is only valid on Main street on the last Sunday of each month if he wanted to.

Yes, the chief can add any restrictions that he wants. See MGL Chapter 140 Section 131, which reads, in part:

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper; and (ii) rifles and shotguns, including large capacity weapons, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes; provided, however, that the licensing authority may impose such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of large capacity rifles and shotguns as it deems proper. A violation of a restriction imposed by the licensing authority under the provisions of this paragraph shall be cause for suspension or revocation and shall, unless otherwise provided, be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000; provided, however, that the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply to such violation.

Full text here: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131.htm

So, your chief can add whatever restrictions he wants. The law specifically grants him that restriction. Yes, it does suck. That, and $3.50, will get you a latte.

If he's at a family cookout and therefore on private property, Doesn't the restriction not really matter during said cookout? as long as the property owner is ok with him having the firearms in his possesion?

I don't see anything in the text in the law above that says such restrictions do not apply on private property.

 

[Lank]

I am troubled by the apathy and indifference of our colleagues.

 

[Lank]

Well I did call Sen Timilty's office, who is in favor of the bill. Brewer, Buoniconti and Candaras staff were polite, but offered no information.

 

[drgrant]

There's a huge administrative penalty attached to violating restrictions. Outside of that, though, it's no different than any other LTC. Its tough to determine how
or even whether or not it would be enforced under different circumstances. Only your issuing authority can tell you that, and most people are afraid to ask or don't
get any straight answers from them.

As to "why it is tolerated" is because the law, as written, allows for the abuse vector. MA is a discretionary issue state, which basically means the chief/IA can do
anything they want to the applicant. They can literally ask you to jump through flaming hoops if they want.

-Mike

 

[Lank]

Well, I'm here to help change this. It doesnt have to be tolerated.

 

[EcHo]

Depends on what zone you are in. Also, you can't even possess a handgun during deer shotgun season in "any woodland or field" even if properly licensed.....

There has got to be some exception to that law. If I want to go for a walk in the woods with my handgun during deer shotgun season I can't do that?

 

[Lank]

In the meantime, what is a good LTC B pistol. If I read the rules correctly, they have to be ten rds or less, and cannot accept any magazine greater than ten rds?

Would a typical single stack 8+1 1911 A be ok?

 

[dixidawg]

There has got to be some exception to that law. If I want to go for a walk in the woods with my handgun during deer shotgun season I can't do that?

Page 23 and page 27 here:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/abstracts/hunt_fish_abstracts.pdf



The possession of rifles, handguns, or dogs in any woodland or field, or use of same on any game, is prohibited during the shotgun deer season except that the use of dogs is lawful for hunting waterfowl on coastal waters.

 

[TheRoland]

They can literally ask you to jump through flaming hoops if they want.

-Mike

And if this is all they wanted, I think I could live with it.

Would a typical single stack 8+1 1911 A be ok?

Yes. Basically, the whole world of 1911s, or at least, 1911s that aren't horrible double-stack abominations.

 

[Pilgrim]

the chief can restrict carry to only when you are wearing brown shoes if he wants to.

 

[Kevlar]

the chief can restrict carry to only when you are wearing [STRIKE]brown[/STRIKE] clown shoes if he wants to.

FIFY

 

[Lank]

Page 23 and page 27 here:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/abstracts/hunt_fish_abstracts.pdf



The possession of rifles, handguns, or dogs in any woodland or field, or use of same on any game, is prohibited during the shotgun deer season except that the use of dogs is lawful for hunting waterfowl on coastal waters.

So cutting through a field with a Ratt Terrier is illegal in MA?

 

[EcHo]

Page 23 and page 27 here:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/abstracts/hunt_fish_abstracts.pdf



The possession of rifles, handguns, or dogs in any woodland or field, or use of same on any game, is prohibited during the shotgun deer season except that the use of dogs is lawful for hunting waterfowl on coastal waters.

I better not walk my basset hound in the woods during hunting season though...wouldn't want to be arrested for having a dog in the woods. I still think there has got to be some exceptions to these rules or everyone I see walking their dogs in the woods is in violation. Maybe these only apply to hunters?