What is actually involved in becoming a certified firearms instructor? *quick story*

45collector

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Last night I saw an old friend that I haven't seen in years. He says "Hey I got my LTC about a month ago."

I congratulate him and start asking all kinds of questions on what he knows about MA and federal firearms laws and so forth. Whatever instructor he got his cert from apparently had some misinformation for him...

It's legal to store a handgun in a lockable glove box.

Any guns you store at home in a safe must be unloaded.

It's illegal to carry a gun to church.

It's illegal for MA residents to buy ammunition online.

There were a few other things I he mentioned I can't remember now but obviously this instructor is somewhat ignorant of MA gun laws. It got me thinking: What is required of someone to become a certified firearms instructor in MA? I'm no law expert but I'm pretty sure I could do a better job of explaining MA laws than this dude.
 
Last night I saw an old friend that I haven't seen in years. He says "Hey I got my LTC about a month ago."

I congratulate him and start asking all kinds of questions on what he knows about MA and federal firearms laws and so forth. Whatever instructor he got his cert from apparently had some misinformation for him...

It's legal to store a handgun in a lockable glove box.

Any guns you store at home in a safe must be unloaded.

It's illegal to carry a gun to church.

It's illegal for MA residents to buy ammunition online.

There were a few other things I he mentioned I can't remember now but obviously this instructor is somewhat ignorant of MA gun laws. It got me thinking: What is required of someone to become a certified firearms instructor in MA? I'm no law expert but I'm pretty sure I could do a better job of explaining MA laws than this dude.

My class was a joke and only time he said any thing about laws be sides saying you need to have guns locked up . Where a few questions people asked and he got those wrong .
He basically stuck to safety and how to clear some types of guns. How to tell what eye you use ect. Watched a copy of Eddie eagle and a few other 70-80's NRA videos that looked like scrambled porn ...

After the class I though jfc that was retarded . Few years have passed and I could def give a better class in a hour then I got .
 
Instructors might be nervous about giving instructions on law so they are not responsible. If you took a gun safety coarse that's probably what they stick to. There are coarses which cover mass gun laws. I took one that did both.
 
To get my NRA pistol and rifle Instructors cert. I had to stay awake during the class and then not shoot anyone while putting 5 rounds of .22 on a target 10 feet away. There was no discussion regarding laws
 
I am an NRA certified pistol and rifle instructor here in CT although I'm no longer teaching classes because I'm just too concerned about the liability anymore. Nevertheless, I, too, had a terrible pistol instructor here in CT years ago when I got my permit. He was so wrong about so many things. It took me years to figure in all out. For instance, here in CT we have NO mention of 'concealed' anywhere in our regs yet this terrible instructor went on and on about a requirement to carry concealed and the concerns about "imprinting" in my pants etc., etc, all of which is made up and way out of his purview. In addition, our shooting portion was in a classroom (!) with a .38 special revolver shooting squib loads: primer only brass with a cork "bullet" into a cardboard box. Wow. That was also totally wrong.

The NRA pistol and rifle instructor classes are intensive but everything......and I mean everything is about safety and the proper handling of firearms, period. It does not get into public policy nor the laws nor the storage issues, or anything of the sort. You are NOT a lawyer, they will tell you. It's not your job to interpret the rules and regulations but up to the pupil to read up on them. You can inform them that there are specific rules you have to follow but you have no authority to explain them. If you tell someone something that they misinterpret or give them information that they can or can't do something and they get into trouble you can expect a knock on the door or a letter in the mail. Even when you do everything by the book you still can have students who go astray. Think of how the instructor that gave a class to the mother of the Newtown kid feels.

Now, do students continuously ask about things outside of the safety issues taught in the class? Sure. To help them out what I did was simply have some handouts that usually covered pretty much all the issues they were curious about but were direct printouts from the State, nothing more. From there they could pursue the information more easily. That doesn't connect me to interpreting anything legal.

The only thing that I as an instructor did that was considered "extra" but outside of any legal issues was to have a short discussion about the responsibility of carrying a handgun. The NRA instructor's course doesn't talk about this nor does the typical pistol class, either. I usually talk about it just so the students can begin to have a appreciation for the responsibility they might be embarking on. It's not something that I take lightly and I just want them to ask themselves the important questions.

So, to conclude, your observation is spot on in one respect; the pistol instructor is NOT SUPPOSED TO DISCUSS the legalities of firearms but only the safe handling and operation of them. If MA has a special portion of their instructor's class that deals with these subjects, I would be very surprised because you are asking about things that get into the legalities, something the NRA course does not have.

Hope that help put a perspective on your question.

Rome
 
To get my NRA pistol and rifle Instructors cert. I had to stay awake during the class and then not shoot anyone while putting 5 rounds of .22 on a target 10 feet away. There was no discussion regarding laws

That's pretty accurate. The best part of my class, in all seriousness, is that I got some really good public speaking tips.
 
As in every other fields, service providers vary widely in competency. Licensing means little, and this is OK - if we overdo licensing requirements, we lose a lot of potential instructors due to the time and expense of jumping through the hoops.

Like with anything else... don't take a class from somebody you've never heard of before - ask around, check references and you'll find an instructor you can be happy with.
 
Last night I saw an old friend that I haven't seen in years. He says "Hey I got my LTC about a month ago."

I congratulate him and start asking all kinds of questions on what he knows about MA and federal firearms laws and so forth. Whatever instructor he got his cert from apparently had some misinformation for him...

It's legal to store a handgun in a lockable glove box.

Any guns you store at home in a safe must be unloaded.

It's illegal to carry a gun to church.

It's illegal for MA residents to buy ammunition online.

There were a few other things I he mentioned I can't remember now but obviously this instructor is somewhat ignorant of MA gun laws. It got me thinking: What is required of someone to become a certified firearms instructor in MA? I'm no law expert but I'm pretty sure I could do a better job of explaining MA laws than this dude.

Instructors might be nervous about giving instructions on law so they are not responsible. If you took a gun safety coarse that's probably what they stick to. There are coarses which cover mass gun laws. I took one that did both.

The NRA basic courses forbid discussion of law and stick to gun safety. The NRA Personal Protection classes have a law component but an admonition to the instructor that NOBODY can teach that portion as an NRA Instructor, that it must be given by an attorney or LEO KNOWLEDGEABLE of your state's gun laws. I am able to teach the entire course, but due to my personal qualifications only.

Now to become a MA State Police Certified Instructor to give the state certificate for people to apply for LTC/FID, ONLY requires a copy of your NRA certificate as an instructor AND a check for $50.00. NO vetting and no knowledge required to be a MSP certified instructor!

MA requires that you teach the MA gun law (but give no guidance on what to teach) OR hand out a couple of pages about MA gun law . . . that's it. Most MSP certified instructors are ignorant of MA gun law and teach accordingly. This was a strong motivator for me to create my MA Gun Law Seminar . . . but my seminar takes 5+ hours (and integrating the new law w/o going 6+ hrs is going to be a challenge!) and covers areas that only a handful of instructors in MA even understand.
 
Like with anything else... don't take a class from somebody you've never heard of before - ask around, check references and you'll find an instructor you can be happy with.

Problem is that when you are a student in one of these classes (even the instructor classes) you have no idea what you are supposed to be taught, so you aren't in a good position to truly review and understand if the instructor did a good job or not. It's the old "you don't know what you don't know"!!

Also most people want the cheapest, fastest class . . . and that usually means that quality is sacrificed.
 
What does it take to become an NRA certified instructor ?

I really have no idea,how about $50 and 2 hours of your time.

I know it can't be that difficult,it seems half the people on this site are certified for NRA BS judging by their sigs lol
 
Problem is that when you are a student in one of these classes (even the instructor classes) you have no idea what you are supposed to be taught, so you aren't in a good position to truly review and understand if the instructor did a good job or not. It's the old "you don't know what you don't know"!!

Also most people want the cheapest, fastest class . . . and that usually means that quality is sacrificed.

You get what you pay for - god bless them if they count on that class to train them to use a firearm.
 
A checkbook and a free Saturday.

The "funny" (ironic?) thing is that we wouldn't have so many shitty instructors lining up for an easy payday if we didn't have stupid mandatory training laws. Unintended consequences indeed.
 
My class was 16 plus hours, two days, 32 years ago. It was intensive, some guys didnt pass.

Th
 
A checkbook and a free Saturday.

The "funny" (ironic?) thing is that we wouldn't have so many shitty instructors lining up for an easy payday if we didn't have stupid mandatory training laws. Unintended consequences indeed.

Very true,they are capitalizing on shitty laws,same thing that gunshops do with Glocks and ammo.
 
I received my NRA Basic Pistol Instructor course from Jon Green and Darius at GOAL. It was a pretty long, thorough course.

With regard to MA law, when I teach the course I provide pretty much the same information as GOAL. The information isn't meant to be comprehensive, and we tell the students that. Basically, we cover:
- Licensing
- Purchasing
- Transporting
- Storage
- AWB

We hand out the Mass Law FAQs and direct the student to additional resources, such as GOAL and Comm2A. We try very hard not to give false information.
 
When I lived in the Commonwealth I took my NRA basic pistol class at Woburn. Two days, 8 hours each day. They were incredibly thorough but they didn't cover laws, just gun handling and safety.

The instructors had other instructors in the back grading them.
 
OK I get it now. As a MSP certified instructor you are only required to cover safe handling and general knowledge of how firearms work. I guess it makes sense that they don't want you getting into the convoluted MA laws since most instructors are not lawyers. It just blows my mind how often I hear things about instructors giving false information to first time applicants or anyone else that needs to take the safety course.
 
OK I get it now. As a MSP certified instructor you are only required to cover safe handling and general knowledge of how firearms work. I guess it makes sense that they don't want you getting into the convoluted MA laws since most instructors are not lawyers. It just blows my mind how often I hear things about instructors giving false information to first time applicants or anyone else that needs to take the safety course.

Not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but actually MSP instructors are required to cover certain sections of MA law.
 
MA State Police basic firearm safety course law component requires covering Transportation, Storage and Possession, according to 5.15 CMR 3.00

And most MA instructors do NOT have a good understanding of any of those topics. So what they teach is usually WRONG!!

I've had a number of instructors (but not nearly enough) take my MA Gun Law Seminar and what I stated is borne out by the questions that they ask me. I'm very glad that they ask and take the seminar so perhaps they are the minority who actually teach the correct info.


I received my NRA Basic Pistol Instructor course from Jon Green and Darius at GOAL. It was a pretty long, thorough course.

With regard to MA law, when I teach the course I provide pretty much the same information as GOAL. The information isn't meant to be comprehensive, and we tell the students that. Basically, we cover:
- Licensing
- Purchasing
- Transporting
- Storage
- AWB

We hand out the Mass Law FAQs and direct the student to additional resources, such as GOAL and Comm2A. We try very hard not to give false information.

I also took my NRA Basic Pistol/Home Firearm Safety Instructor course from Jon and Darius. It was hard work and intensive, I loved it and that is why I highly recommend Jon for whatever course he teaches.

Jon told us that ours was one of the rare courses where he actually passed everyone.

Sadly there is a fair amount of mis-information in the GOAL material on the website. Therefore I would never give that to any of my students.


Not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but actually MSP instructors are required to cover certain sections of MA law.

But if they really don't understand it they do a piss-poor job of teaching it. MSP also allows merely handing out material (that almost nobody ever looks at after the class) instead of teaching it.

Am I confusing NRA certified instructors with MSP instructors then?

Perhaps you are . . . but from the student side of the desk it all appears the same.
 
Am I confusing NRA certified instructors with MSP instructors then?

Yes, you are.

Personally, I don't share the outrage. I'm not at all surprised that an instructor is confused about MA gun laws. Who here truly believes that they understand them?

And just what are the current laws after the most recent legislation? Are those new laws in force immediately? After 90 days? January 1?

As for storage in a vehicle, I thought I understood what was required until the recent SJC decision muddied the water.
 
Yes, you are.

Personally, I don't share the outrage.

I wouldn't say I'm outraged. I just hate to see new shooters being fed garbage by folks who have the title "instructor". My friend last night basically told me he trusts an instructor's advice over mine. While that certainly should be the case, since I have no fancy certificates, I am pretty sure I know a lot more about MA gun laws than that instructor. And most of what I've learned about MA gun laws has been from being a member of this site for over 6 years.
 
I wouldn't say I'm outraged. I just hate to see new shooters being fed garbage by folks who have the title "instructor". My friend last night basically told me he trusts an instructor's advice over mine. While that certainly should be the case, since I have no fancy certificates, I am pretty sure I know a lot more about MA gun laws than that instructor. And most of what I've learned about MA gun laws has been from being a member of this site for over 6 years.

Your problem is with your friend that has an irrational trust in a title or license.

Any attempt to fix it by "improving" licensing will do more harm than good.

Either accept that some people are beyond help, or start pointing out to your friend (in a friendly and documented way) why the idiotic statements the instructor fed him are Scott Brown.
 
Am I confusing NRA certified instructors with MSP instructors then?

Probably. One of the approved MSP curricula is the NRA course (actually there are a couple NRA courses that are approved.) While the NRA doesn't include legal stuff, MSP requires it as an add-on. Most guys just hand out a pamphlet after they finish up the NRA part, which is perfectly legal.

Certain BFS course curriculums do not contain a firearms related law component. Such curriculums can still meet Department of State Police curriculum criteria by utilizing guest speakers familiar with firearms laws or by utilizing or distributing to its students written informational pamphlets/books/videos by an entity/individual familiar with firearms laws to cover that portion of the course.

For what it's worth the club I volunteer at brings in a firearms attorney as a guest speaker.
 
It took me years to figure in all out. For instance, here in CT we have NO mention of 'concealed' anywhere in our regs yet this terrible instructor went on and on about a requirement to carry concealed and the concerns about "imprinting" in my pants etc., etc, all of which is made up and way out of his purview.
It may or may not be in the regs but the NRA thinks it's important
CARRYING
A permit to carry a pistol or revolver is required to carry a handgun on or about one’s person, either openly or concealed, or in a vehicle. However, the Connecticut Board of Firearms Permit Examiners (which reviews denials and revocations of permits) cautions that "every effort should be made to ensure that no gun is exposed to view or carried in a manner that would tend to alarm people who see it."

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/connecticut.aspx
I imagine you want to teach your students how to avoid becoming a test case.
 
Yes, you are.

Personally, I don't share the outrage. I'm not at all surprised that an instructor is confused about MA gun laws. Who here truly believes that they understand them?

The problem is some of these instructors are so bad that they put their students in legal peril if these students actually take the smoke enema they've been given as gospel. When it comes to "Staying out of the most common types of gun law trouble" in MA, you really only need to know like 20% of MA gun law. (EG, things like "You can't carry at schools" and safe storage/transport BS) The rest of it is crap that can mostly be forgotten about. (like Handgun compliance, ammo storage CMR BS, etc. )

I agree with WatchCityCPA on this... any attempts to fix it will result in things getting worse (or on a good day, more expensive and less accessible). It doesn't change the fact that these shitty instructors are more or less engaging in a form of consumer fraud, though.

-Mike
 
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