What happens if you find a gun?

[terraformer]

I was just curious if had it happened today while I had my license, I could have a legal claim to it.

You should, but the law is not followed here in MA. You would likely not get to keep it that day, a year later or ever.

 

[Kevlar]

...there is probably some federal BS in GCA68 that covers serial numbers...

Yup, 18 USC 922(k) (cf. 26 USC 5861(g), (h), (i)).

Up to 5 years incarceration (18 USC 924(a)(1)(B)).

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section11b

I think you meant MGL 269-11C.

Yeah, that would work in MA if possession of a firearm with a defaced serial number wasn't a 10 year felony.

MGL 269-11C (Misdemeanor) carries a penalty up to 2.5 years in a HOC.

MGL 269-11B (Felony) carries a penalty up to 5 years in State prison.

Is there another statute I'm unaware of?

 

[CJKarl]

That doesn't matter. It's just another thing to grind off.

That said, I wouldn't want ANY modern firearm with a missing SN in my safe, either. They are pretty much defacto felony grade contraband in every state in the US. (not to mention there is probably some federal BS in GCA68 that covers serial numbers) You might as well be keeping a grenade in your safe.

-Mike

EXACTLY that's the biggest red flag in the gun world. And if someone grinds them you better grind deep. Because the stamping changes the structure of the steel at the point of impact. Grind the number off, run and electromagnet through and add some fine iron particles. The # can be read. Unless of course it's a non magnetic material.

 

[dhuze]

All grinding,annealing,stamping,tig welder etc is going to do is make it hard to find the SN. It will not prevent you from going to jail for possessing a firearm with a defaced SN.

On a side note I have 2 Mossberg 44US's from the US Army that the Naval War station changed the SN on. Is the Navy going to jail with me?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

One can legally (federally at least) remove the serial number from a gun, provided that you

(a) Place the same serial number in another location following BATFE specifications as to height, depth and technology of engraving

(b) Obtain a written BATFE variance for the specific gun in advance of doing so (yes, they do issue these)

At one time when there were fewer CZ style pistols, and they were not being targeted at the civilian/competition market, the serial number on some models was exactly where one would want to drill to mount a red dot scope. BATFE variance letters allowed some individuals to do so without fear of legal complications.

 

[Jose]

All grinding,annealing,stamping,tig welder etc is going to do is make it hard to find the SN..

Wrong. It will be impossible to find the original serial number. The metallurgy that the acid etch method depends on will be forever erased at the microcrystalline level when the metal is exposed to the right temperature for the right amount of time. This isn't idle speculation. This is heat treat 101 and I deal with this for a living.

It will not prevent you from going to jail for possessing a firearm with a defaced SN.

Just as anyone who knows metal working can make the first serial number disappear, they can put another one on that will look like it came from the factory. And there is no way that the factory can hide serial numbers on a firearm. Anyone with the tools and knowledge to do a complete detail strip can find them, erase them and restamp/etch/engrage them, or simply replace the offending part with an aftermarket substitute (if one is available).

The other forensic tells on a firearm are even easier to alter. Rifled barrels can be replaced with aftermarket ones. A few passes with a file or end mill on a breechface, removing .0005" or less, is enough to render the tool marks unmatcheable. A firing pin can be easily replaced or the tip peened and rounded to make it unrecognizable from what it used to be......

Anyone with a knowledge of metallurgy and machining can make these alterations fairly easily.

 

[hurley431]

Or, if one really wanted a firearm that couldn't be traced to them... they could get an illegal one; wait... err... I mean gun control works.

Jose, you're dropping of metal work knowledge makes me wish I learned how to actually weld instead of just being able to strike an arc.

 

[dhuze]

Wrong. It will be impossible to find the original serial number. The metallurgy that the acid etch method depends on will be forever erased at the microcrystalline level when the metal is exposed to the right temperature for the right amount of time. This isn't idle speculation. This is heat treat 101 and I deal with this for a living.

Ok perhaps I should have said it would make it impossible to find. My point was no matter how you deface a SN it will still be a Felony. Restamping a different number doesn't make it not a Felony. It might make it harder to prove.

 

[mass]

I find guns all the time.

At least that's what I tell my wife when she asks "where did you get one? I've neven seen it before"


Sent from behind enemy lines using Tapatalk.

 

[Jose]

Jose, you're dropping of metal work knowledge makes me wish I learned how to actually weld instead of just being able to strike an arc.

Well, I wish I knew how to weld so we can teach each other.

Some of the shafts we build for other people are two pieces of 17-4PH screwed together and V groove TIG welded. In order to keep the shaft from cracking at the weld and bending any time it is mildly heated (we have to hold .0005 TIR in various places) I send them out for solution anneal after welding. Then they are aged to condition H900 to get the final hardness and temper. After final turning and grinding, they end up stress free, straight, and, if it weren't for the joint line at the threads, the weld would be impossible to detect on X ray.

 

[Broc]

If you find a gun in an alley and turn it in to the police, can you ever get possesion of it if it doesn't come up as stolen or used in a crime?

I would not touch it.

 

[George D]

I would not touch it.

Too late. lol
This was 20 years ago and I had zero knowledge of MA laws. Surprised they didn't arrest me for unlawful possession of a firearm, improper storage, loaded firearm in a vehicle, firearm on school grounds, etc. I had hopped out, thrown it on the front seat of my ol 79 Z28 and drove to school.

 

[Chase]

I recall reading recently, can't remember where though, that even if you grind off the serial number there is a way to raise it or display it. Maybe it's only with newer guns?

.
Yes your are correct if it was an etched number it would be harder to evaluate after being grounf off . if its stamped it leaves an impression through the metal that can be brought out with chemicals and speacial lighting . i used to work in the motorcycle industry where this was a huge problem ... but they still couldnt pin it on the subject who gets caught . most people who grind them off will restamp new numbers ,resulting in a double imprint in the metal resulting in non legible overprinted numbers .. makeing it impossible to decifer the original ones ...

 

[Chase]

Too late. lol
This was 20 years ago and I had zero knowledge of MA laws. Surprised they didn't arrest me for unlawful possession of a firearm, improper storage, loaded firearm in a vehicle, firearm on school grounds, etc. I had hopped out, thrown it on the front seat of my ol 79 Z28 and drove to school.

i was 14 walking home from school . there was a geological plate movement under my town that resulted in the spicket river drying up for about 4 days until the underground culvert filled back up and surfaced to continue flow ...as a result the waterfall in the center of town was dry for the first time in history , i found 3 handguns in about 5 minutes .. i turned them into police , they asked where they were found , and that was the end of it , never heard anymore . with a little searching ,who knows how many where down there !

 

[enbloc]

.

 

[pdm]

On a side note.
I see a lot of old firearms (mostly .22 rifles and shotguns) that have no serial number at all. Sometimes without a model # too.
My question is: How are these guns dealt with by FFL's, Police, and sellers/buyers?
~Matt

I have an old .22LR rifle like that. On the form where the serial # goes, they put "NSN", which is acceptable for pre-GCA68 firearms, which first required them if I'm not mistaken.

 

[enbloc]

.

 

[Kevlar]

I have an old .22LR rifle like that. On the form where the serial # goes, they put "NSN", which is acceptable for pre-GCA68 firearms, which first required them if I'm not mistaken.

Correct. Serial numbers where not required by law prior to passage of GCA68 (18 USC 923(i)).

For unmarked firearms, form 4473 question 28 is answered "NSN" (No Serial Number), "N/A" or "None".

 

[George D]

Now that I think about it, I found the mythical gun on the street you always hear about.
"It's time to get these guns off the street".
I also have an old Savage 67H 12ga pump that was manufactured with no serial number as well as some old 22 rifles with no serial numbers.
I think I left the FA-10 blank when I sent them in or used the model number stamped in the side, I forget.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Yup, 18 USC 922(k) (cf. 26 USC 5861(g), (h), (i)).

Up to 5 years incarceration (18 USC 924(a)(1)(B)).





I think you meant MGL 269-11C.





MGL 269-11C (Misdemeanor) carries a penalty up to 2.5 years in a HOC.

MGL 269-11B (Felony) carries a penalty up to 5 years in State prison.

Is there another statute I'm unaware of?

Add the max state and federal and you get 10.

Really though, I just misquoted the felony punishment. The distinctions between felonies > 5 years is really irrelevant for street work, though I should have researched it before posting. Mea culpa.

 

[OfficerObie59]

i was 14 walking home from school . there was a geological plate movement under my town that resulted in the spicket river drying up for about 4 days until the underground culvert filled back up and surfaced to continue flow ...as a result the waterfall in the center of town was dry for the first time in history , i found 3 handguns in about 5 minutes .. i turned them into police , they asked where they were found , and that was the end of it , never heard anymore . with a little searching ,who knows how many where down there !

Not sure if serious.

 

[RHJJ]

If I found a gun laying in a public place I would call the locals. I don't want a gun in my possession that would tie me to a crime. If I found one that was hidden away for years it would be mine. Use common sense.

 

[mustagt02]

Why turn it in? That's the one that you're supposed to keep as a drop gun if you ever have to shoot someone that breaks into your house.




*This was meant solely as a joke. In NO way should anyone ever keep a gun that they find. They should immediately contact the police so that they can come and retrieve it.


....right marsha?

This

 

[pupchow]

This is what happens:

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/hampden/morse-and-holyoke-pd-find-missing-rifle

"Morse and Holyoke PD find missing rifle"

 

[bostonasphalt2]

This is what happens:

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/hampden/morse-and-holyoke-pd-find-missing-rifle

"Morse and Holyoke PD find missing rifle"

Holyoke = cesspool

 

[Chase]

Not sure if serious.

Yah weird as it sounds ..
But true ...underground movement opened up a huge culvert that the spicket flowed into ... it dried up for days .... im sure if you back searched eagle tribune archives you could find the article. Because I do remember a column and pics of it.

 

[jcetto0351]

So what's the general rule or maybe there is an actual MGL for somebody who receives a rifle from a family member of a deceased person? What I mean is hypothetically a legally owned gun is owned by a guy who has a heart attack and the mother later gives you her son's rifle because she doesn't know what to do with it.

FA-10 and done?

 

[cekim]

So what's the general rule or maybe there is an actual MGL for somebody who receives a rifle from a family member of a deceased person? What I mean is hypothetically a legally owned gun is owned by a guy who has a heart attack and the mother later gives you her son's rifle because she doesn't know what to do with it.

FA-10 and done?

The receiver must have or at least apply an LTC.

Other than that, see here:
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/5804-MA-Gun-Laws-(Fed-amp-MA)-and-Inheritance

The usual CF of MA law.

 

[GaryO]

Now that I think about it, I found the mythical gun on the street you always hear about.
"It's time to get these guns off the street".
I also have an old Savage 67H 12ga pump that was manufactured with no serial number as well as some old 22 rifles with no serial numbers.
I think I left the FA-10 blank when I sent them in or used the model number stamped in the side, I forget.

Mythical street? If it was Sesame St. the sawed off 12 guage belongs to Oscar the grouch.He is going to teach that damned Big Bird a lesson he will never forget!

 

[SeanT]

Isn't that found gun the one you're supposed to seal up and bury with some ammo... just in case

I kid, I kid