What glock should I buy?

[GSG]

Granted, thats with FMJ ammo, NYPD, and 1995, but that doesn't mean its a moot point in 2010, but take it for what its worth and adjust with current data accordingly.

I missed that part, thanks for the info. I'd be very interested to see the circumstances behind those shoots; for instance, if it was a drug raid in a crowded apartment building, overpenetration would be a much bigger concern than if it were in the middle of an empty street by a warehouse. With a JHP, I seriously doubt overpenetration would be an issue unless you were using a .50 BMG . That's the first I've ever seen of that, but even still, considering the size of that department & the number of shootings that they have annually, that's a very small number. NYPD issues 9mm 124 grain +p Speer Gold Dot now, and I haven't heard of any overpenetration with that, or with any other JHP.

Which agencies? Just curious... I'd ask if you know of any in our area (MA) but it looks like you're in FL?

I moved here from MA. There's several LE agencies nationwide that currently issue the 10mm, Wikipedia lists a few, and Google searches could probably bring up some more. But in MA, I know that the town of Wellfleet (on the Cape) issues a Glock, but they'll let officers carry just about any caliber/gun combo that they can qualify with, including the 10mm. So if push ever did come to shove, tell that to your attorney before the circus starts up in civil court.

I'll have to get back to you on cases where there was a clean shot. I can't show you a case off the top of my head with the research I've done to date.

If you find one post it up or PM me, I'm always interested in reading about cases, including the wacky "perfect storm" type ones with prosecutorial abuse or other nonsense.

Should you make the conscious decision to carry cocked and locked with a large caliber you've made a rational choice once you've though about these arguable issues, and then you should have a means in which to rationalize and justify what you did and what you carry.

I agree 100%. But this needs to be part of a larger legal strategy, including not speaking without an attorney protecting your rights, avoiding trouble, etc. The case is going to be presented to a jury, an experienced lawyer will know best how to do this to show that you're not a criminal or a nutcase.

Listen, all BS aside it's pretty simple. Carry the biggest gun you can conceal, in the biggest caliber with the hottest rounds you can shoot accurately, keep your mouth shut if anything should happen, and have a competent and experienced lawyer on speed dial. It's like the basic safety rules, follow those simple 4 rules and everything else is just unneccessary babble.

That's the truth, with one exception.

The Mass. SJC case Commonwelath v. Irving Jones (1977), which says in part:

Absence of a license is not "an element of the crime," as that phrase is commonly used. In the absence of evidence with respect to a license, no issue is presented with respect to licensing. In other words, the burden is on the defendant to come forward with evidence of the defense. If such evidence is presented, however, the burden is on the prosecution to persuade the trier of facts beyond a reasonable doubt that the defense does not exist.

Meaning that in Massachusetts, when it comes to firearms, the courts say that you need to prove that you can legally possess a firearm. It sucks that you're not innocent until proven guilty, but it's good to know this info to incorporate it into your legal strategy...keep your mouth shut, but not about the legal status of your guns. You do need to explain that, if nothing else.

IMO if anyone is ever involved in an SD shooting, "what gun you were carrying" and what caliber it was chambered in, is not going to be a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It's not worth worrying about compared to a whole bunch of other things which could come into play. Cursory examination of many SD shooting incidents proves this out pretty well. Most of the trials end up focusing on the justification aspect of the shooting, and whether or not the shooter was legally justified in using deadly force or not- not grandiose tales of ayoob glue fume acid trips involving caliber selection, trigger pull weight, and whether or not a revolver could be cocked into single action.

Something else to consider...there's been plenty of cases where LEO's have been successfully sued because they didn't follow department policy regarding modification of their guns, or regarding cocking the hammer in a stressful situation, etc. While LEO shooting stats can provide some helpful info to lawfully armed citizens, a lot of this stuff doesn't apply. If you're a cop, your agency insurance or firearms policy might not allow you to throw a Crimson Trace laser or lighter recoil spring on your gun, which would leave you liable in civil court. If you're a private citizen with an LTC in Mass., as long as the guns not stolen & you don't deface the serial number you're good to go. Ayoob's a cop, so there's things like that that he might assign importance to that will never come up for anyone else, because it doesn't apply.