What do you consider a good group at about 30'?

Broccoli Iglesias

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Sorry, I missed this in the OP


But back on topic. What would you call a good group for handgun at 20-30'. Basic carry stuff, no fancy optics. The kind of fire rate you might have in a self-defence situation
I use a human torso sized target. Do all the rounds hit the critical area shooting as fast as I can? If YES, that to me is a good group for self defense.
 
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I think its hard to say what a “good group” should be.
I think many shooters are now “hits on target” happy . So if your using a 18”t X 16”w score ring size targets shooters will feel like thats good.
I dont shoot a lot of pistol but when I do its usually at 25 and 50 yards with service pistol targets.
For example I decided to get rid of some 38spl random loose rounds , from wad cutter target rounds to fmj all randomly loaded. I put a few rounds on paper to see where I was generally hitting I shot 2 handed DA about as quick as I could pick up the sights. For a pistol I dont shoot and mixed ammo I considered this ok. I had fun blasting some odds and ends of a mixbag tqrget loads at steel at 25 and 50 yards with about a 70% hit rate . Although at that point we where doing silly old school hold wrista and squat technique. View attachment 377314

Mind you if I pulled this target back to 30’ it should be under 3” or so

Hold that target up to your chest.....I bet all those holes would fit nicely on a person's torso. To me, that is perfect shooting.
 

Rob Boudrie

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This is my group at 50 feet with a P320 X5 Legion. Iron sites.
Nice work. Standing, sitting, one or two handed, on rest or not? I can do that with my SVI fotays on a good day but only if I am seated and resting the pistol. If that's standing with no support at 50ft you've outclassed me by a wide margin.
 

roccoracer

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Nice work. Standing, sitting, one or two handed, on rest or not? I can do that with my SVI fotays on a good day but only if I am seated and resting the pistol. If that's standing with no support at 50ft you've outclassed me by a wide margin.
I was standing unsupported with 2 hands. It was only the 3rd magazine thru the pistol so I was new with it. We will see if I can match it next time or do better next time. I just mounted a Leupold delta point pro on it.
 

mac1911

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Hold that target up to your chest.....I bet all those holes would fit nicely on a person's torso. To me, that is perfect shooting.
aprox 7x5" group aimed center bull. so yes im peppering upper torso at 25 yard with a 2” barrel and grips that kinda suck.
 
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DeadEyeDan

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I’m getting old and my eyes are suffering... this was 30 rounds at 10 yards in Weymouth a few weeks ago. I got a bit sloppy at the end... Two hands standing unsupported and taking my time.22E0E242-224B-4F0D-B221-4D53A707C702.jpeg
 

namedpipes

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That would be me, shooting other peoples targets just to mess with them in front of their friends![smile]

Dude with a revolver shoots one cylinder full and ends up looking all round when there are twenty three holes in his target...

Me, quietly walking way to use the men's room while whistling dixie...

Nothing is more fun then watching someone adjust their sights a hundred times when shooting and still never see an improvement.

If it's a nice gun that I like I usually hand them my card and say "Man, that thing has horrible accuracy, if you want to unload it, let me know I need one for a project".[smile]
I took the CEO of my company to an Appleseed once. In an early round he lost track of which target he was supposed to shoot at and shot at mine. He's Italian and insisted somebody ELSE was shooting my target, never mind his had like two holes in it and mine had around 18...
 

42!

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Defensive shooting
Probably something like this...sights optional

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAhCq2pXr7Y
So he's expecting pre-staged multiple targets with a timer to indicate a start, and he'll just happen to have a tricked out pistol, rig, and probably even special mags. Real World? [wink]

Not saying this competition is easy, it's NOT. Just saying that if you're practicing for self defence you should at the minimum be using your daily carry.
 
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Full sized 9mm like a Sig 226 at 10 yards at self-defense speed? Do some pushups, run some laps of the club, from the draw, head down, squeezing as soon as I see the sights settle, I would consider golf ball sized to be fairly skilled. Probably alot of people here who can cloverleaf in those conditions.

Same pistol slow shooting target style cloverleaf is easy.

Doing the same with a Scandium J-frame with full power .357 loads? Fist sized group would be very impressive.
 

Supermoto

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So he's expecting pre-staged multiple targets with a timer to indicate a start, and he'll just happen to have a tricked out pistol, rig, and probably even special mags. Real World? [wink]

Not saying this competition is easy, it's NOT. Just saying that if you're practicing for self defence you should at the minimum be using your daily carry.
That is my carry gun :)
 

whacko

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If I'm shooting for accuracy not defensive speed..... 25 feet they should all be one ragged hole with my 1911. 50 feet I expect them all in a 6-8 inch group.
 
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What gun are you going to carry? What's your plan? You want to be able to make fist sized groups at the max engagement range you expect. Getting in a gunfight at longer than 10 yards is unusual, but it does happen. The Ayoob in me wants to say at a certain range GTFO, don't fight. A range where you can escape instead of shoot. Most happen at bad-breath distances.

Practicing pistol at 50 and 100 yards is alot of fun. Even from a rest. Really eye opening how much slower and more susceptible to the wind pistol rounds are than rifle.
 
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It depends on the gun, style of shooting, type of sights/scope, etc, whether the shooter is braced by leaning against the range table, etc.

Unbraced I can shoot offhand with my first gun ever. A Ruger Mk2 with a circa 1983 Aimpoint, I can make a 10 shot group that averages well under an inch at 30'.

Shooting my G34 its 2 inches
Shooting my Les Baer 1911, its about an inch.

Shooting my J frame with a tiny boot grip, its 4 inches. About the same for my Kahr P380.
 

upcountry

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Looking at roccoracer's target brought back a memory from my old bullseye days.
We shot in a league with other clubs. I shot a slow fire target (had a Hi-Std with red dot, Herrett grips, muzzle brake and trigger work done by a former Hi-Std 10X gunsmith, etc) but had a major trigger twitch and threw one off the paper completely; only 9 holes, but a good, tight group in the black. So I wandered over to the scoring table while they scored my target and they debated if there were 9 or 10 holes. They eventually decided that with a group like that, one had to be a double so they "found one" and scored it for 10 shots.
 

kevin9

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People grouping at 30'? That's definitely no-mask-needed territory (stupid orders not withstanding).

Oh, you mean people shooting at 30'. For me, worst case is minute-of-paper-plate (ex. short-barrel J-frame, defensive loading, rapid'ish fire), to best case minute-of-quarter (ex. 22 Mark II, target grips and trigger, slow fire). Even minute-of-target stand backer would not be horrible.
 

whacko

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Your groups open that much in 25 feet?
Yup. Iron sights older eyes. The black bullseye is hard to line up for me at 50 feet because it's very out of focus. Looks more like a grey fuzz. I know it's supposed to be fuzzy as I focus on the front sight....but it's so fuzzy I can't get my 6 o'clock hold exactly the same every shot. At 25 feet I aim center of the bull......white dot of front sight dead nuts center and that's where they all land. Imo 6 inch groups at 50 feet is still pretty damn good. I know guys that can't do that at 25 feet lol

Is what it is.
 

BrianWilson

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The thing that always amazes me about practicing "self defense: shooting is if you pick out one paster, or one piece of tape and totally focus on it, then just draw and let it rip at top speed, like from "retention" type of thing while keeping total focus on that one piece of tape...how often you hit that damn thing. Within a few yards obviously.

30 feet..10 yards? Slow fire...... golf ball on a good day, baseball if it's been a while.
 

chris_1001

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E4BFBF7B-CAC5-4798-B376-E7F08B50D452.pngMy attempt at a smiley face. Forget the distance. But at least 10 yards (no I was not trying to do a smiley face).
 
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namedpipes

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Yup. Iron sights older eyes. The black bullseye is hard to line up for me at 50 feet because it's very out of focus. Looks more like a grey fuzz. I know it's supposed to be fuzzy as I focus on the front sight....but it's so fuzzy I can't get my 6 o'clock hold exactly the same every shot. At 25 feet I aim center of the bull......white dot of front sight dead nuts center and that's where they all land. Imo 6 inch groups at 50 feet is still pretty damn good. I know guys that can't do that at 25 feet lol

Is what it is.
I just try to center the shot in the middle of the blur
 

mac1911

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Yup. Iron sights older eyes. The black bullseye is hard to line up for me at 50 feet because it's very out of focus. Looks more like a grey fuzz. I know it's supposed to be fuzzy as I focus on the front sight....but it's so fuzzy I can't get my 6 o'clock hold exactly the same every shot. At 25 feet I aim center of the bull......white dot of front sight dead nuts center and that's where they all land. Imo 6 inch groups at 50 feet is still pretty damn good. I know guys that can't do that at 25 feet lol

Is what it is.
Im at that point , i generally do center of blur hold the best I can
 
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