What do you consider a good group at about 30'?

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Lately at the range (a pay range not a club) I hear people talking about how well they shoot. I see their target and see them shooting from 20-30 feet and they are all over the place. Now I don't consider myself a great shot, I'm OK, and I've put in a lot of practice over the decades, I'll even admit my groups have grown a bit as I get older. But what the $#% are these people shooting at. And where are they getting that keeping 15 round on the paper is "good". It's a little scary.

Mind you, I never say anything. Not my place.
OK I did say something to the SO once when an "expert" was showing his friend how to shoot and had him wrap his offhand thumb around the back of the pistol. MY comment to the SO was "You might want to have you first aid kit hand"

But back on topic. What would you call a good group for handgun at 20-30'. Basic carry stuff, no fancy optics. The kind of fire rate you might have in a self-defence situation.


I won't even start on the guys who can't keep an AR in the black at 30' :rolleyes:
 
That would be me, shooting other peoples targets just to mess with them in front of their friends![smile]

Dude with a revolver shoots one cylinder full and ends up looking all round when there are twenty three holes in his target...

Me, quietly walking away to use the men's room while whistling dixie...

Nothing is more fun then watching someone adjust their sights a hundred times when shooting and still never see an improvement.

If it's a nice gun that I like I usually hand them my card and say "Man, that thing has horrible accuracy, if you want to unload it, let me know I need one for a project".[smile]
 
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my first club we shot at 25 yards on the outdoor pistol range. i would use those indoor 25 foot .22 pistol targets out there and be extremely disappointed if i strayed out of the black...whats that, 2 inches" but i was a young man also. i couldn't even see that far now.
 
Slow deliberate fire? Medium paced? Or real world encounter?
This.
We talking bullseye shooting or action type shooting (USPSA/IDPA)?

Basic carry stuff, no fancy optics. The kind of fire rate you might have in a self-defence situation.

Practice for competition and practice for what you may encounter are different things. Action competition is fun and difficult, but not what the average Joe is likely to encounter.
 
It’s all in the trigger.
I did an into to IDPA and the instructor said ‘ nice shooting’ on a tough shot. I was happy.

Shot many years in Gallery so trigger discipline is important. I believe it’s a basic needed skill in shooting no matter what you’re doing.

More to your point. Everything in the black at 50 in all fire on paper indoors. Take that discipline to other aspects has worked for me.
Sadly I’m out of practice and must get out more.
 
Many years ago I shot .22 bullseye matches. I'd go to the club to practice and my buddy Joe would be there shooting his 1911 a couple of booths over.
I'd run my target down the 50ft range, set up my shooting box and spotting scope, load my mags and look through the scope to adjust it on my target.
And there would be one .45 hole in the X ring.
Joe was a wise ass, but he could shoot....
 
Many years ago I shot .22 bullseye matches. I'd go to the club to practice and my buddy Joe would be there shooting his 1911 a couple of booths over.
I'd run my target down the 50ft range, set up my shooting box and spotting scope, load my mags and look through the scope to adjust it on my target.
And there would be one .45 hole in the X ring.
Joe was a wise ass, but he could shoot....

I dumped an ‘extra’ hole into more than one a$$holes target.
When you shoot at that level you are able to let the scorers find those missing holes. 😂

Never did it to good competitive shooters on the up and up but dick heads got what they deserved.

Nothing shuts up an a**h*** faster than a X hit on a timed target. Slow fire is wayyyy to easy. Some nights you just know you’re on fire and those were the best matches and laughs with friends. I do miss them.
 
Slow fire. I would consider a ragged hole about 1 1/4 group. When I first started I was happy to keep them all on target. I would assume most of those guys are new we all have to start somewhere.
 
After Sig's Handgun 102 class we were all able to hit the steel head target at 25 yards. I think I could hit it like 1 out of 3 rounds. Was pretty happy with that back then. A little instruction goes a long way.
 
Lately at the range (a pay range not a club) I hear people talking about how well they shoot. I see their target and see them shooting from 20-30 feet and they are all over the place. Now I don't consider myself a great shot, I'm OK, and I've put in a lot of practice over the decades, I'll even admit my groups have grown a bit as I get older. But what the $#% are these people shooting at. And where are they getting that keeping 15 round on the paper is "good". It's a little scary.

Mind you, I never say anything. Not my place.
OK I did say something to the SO once when an "expert" was showing his friend how to shoot and had him wrap his offhand thumb around the back of the pistol. MY comment to the SO was "You might want to have you first aid kit hand"

But back on topic. What would you call a good group for handgun at 20-30'. Basic carry stuff, no fancy optics. The kind of fire rate you might have in a self-defence situation.


I won't even start on the guys who can't keep an AR in the black at 30' :rolleyes:
I think its hard to say what a “good group” should be.
I think many shooters are now “hits on target” happy . So if your using a 18”t X 16”w score ring size targets shooters will feel like thats good.
I dont shoot a lot of pistol but when I do its usually at 25 and 50 yards with service pistol targets.
For example I decided to get rid of some 38spl random loose rounds , from wad cutter target rounds to fmj all randomly loaded. I put a few rounds on paper to see where I was generally hitting I shot 2 handed DA about as quick as I could pick up the sights. For a pistol I dont shoot and mixed ammo I considered this ok. I had fun blasting some odds and ends of a mixbag tqrget loads at steel at 25 and 50 yards with about a 70% hit rate . Although at that point we where doing silly old school hold wrista and squat technique. B04EBE69-550D-442A-9945-D0F73B69C69D.jpeg

Mind you if I pulled this target back to 30’ it should be under 3” or so
 
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I wouldn't say I am a new shooter but I am newish and relatively inexperienced until the past two years or so when I've actually been able to shoot more than once a year. I've talked to quite a few new shooters who like mentioned above are happy to get shots on paper. To me that is completely unacceptable for the sheer fact that while it might be on paper you have no fvcking idea where the bullet is actually going to hit. Id consider myself as average to where I can put holes in a particular area on paper but I couldn't group nearly as well as I thought I should, that's why I've enlisted the help of someone else so I can get better.

My gf surprised me the other day for my birthday and asked me to take her to the range. She has ZERO experienced and quite honestly she was terrified due to previous life experiences. We started small with the G44 and set the target at 12-15ft. She was terrible at first at her own admission but settled down and shot pretty well IMO. Now she's asking me how to make the gun feel better in her hands, how to tighten up her shots and if we can set the target further next time. So while there may be plenty of people who are happy with on paper hits, there are plenty of us who want to shoot in a more controlled manner.

Not bad for her first time ever shooting a gun.
IMG_20200729_184359.jpg
 
depends on gun, speed, and what your goal is.

Handgun:
If slow shooting using a rest, then at 30' a good group for me will be under 2".

Shooting as fast as I can, the A zone in a USPSA target. When shooting fast I focus more on a vertical group. If the group goes up and down, I am doing pretty good. If it's all over the target, I am not shooting well.

Standing up, no rest, shooting maybe 8 rounds in 30 seconds, I would say around 3-4" group.

If I was practicing to hit 10" steel circles, then grouping wouldn't be that big of an issue as long as every round was within a 10" group.

25 yards no rest, last night testing some .358 9mm bullets. I found the revolver has two cylinder holes that are slightly larger, and that might explain a couple of the flyers. The rest are just me aiming at a pretty small target at 25 yards at 7:00pm. Using iron sights.

20200731_183640.jpg

This was around 30' - 36' using the cheapest jacketed ammo. First time shooting this revolver a few months back:

PSX_20200216_164258.jpg

It seems to love standard 9mm jacketed ammo. But with cast bullets, I have to shoot .358 bullets.
 
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