Not a chance. These fired perfect through my revolvers.
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What did you do in the reloading room recently?
- Thread starter DW357
- Start date
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
I was going to ask the same thing but knowing that you have other loads that worked fine I figured there was little chance.
So weird.
My crimps were spot on for the whole batch too. The sp101 loved them. Nice and accurate.
Anyway just got home with a pound of 2400. I'll be doing some research and come up with a starting point and load a dozen or so to test in the Henry.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
So what was the reason for needing to used jacketed again? Lead banned indoors?
Got 1000 jacketed for $100. Want to be able to use one bullet for multiple loads
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Got it
Let me check some old manuals. They tend to have more of the hot 38 special loads with slower powder and they usually have hot loads with some fast powders too.
New manuals tend to drop the fast powder hot loads as they are not the best fit for the application.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
peterk123
NES Member
Took a break from loading 45-70s. Put the 9mm dies back in and loaded up a couple hundred rounds. I will do a bunch more throughout the week. I upped the amount of BE-86 to 4.9 grains. Still a light load though. I really like that powder. I should try it for something other 9mm one day.
I did a bit of house keeping in the loading area and realized I have some loading to do. About 5000 bullets consisting of 9mm, 38SP and 357 waiting to be completed. I have about 100 rounds of 45-70 still to do too.
I did a bit of house keeping in the loading area and realized I have some loading to do. About 5000 bullets consisting of 9mm, 38SP and 357 waiting to be completed. I have about 100 rounds of 45-70 still to do too.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Loaded up 20 rounds of 45/70 for the range today.
The guy i went with had never shot 45/70 so I figured I would give him some variety.
all 405 grain bullets
10 with 12 grains of Unique
5 with 52 grains of Varget
5 with 46 grains of H4198
That was plenty. The 357 lever gun was so nice to shoot after the hot loads.
The guy i went with had never shot 45/70 so I figured I would give him some variety.
all 405 grain bullets
10 with 12 grains of Unique
5 with 52 grains of Varget
5 with 46 grains of H4198
That was plenty. The 357 lever gun was so nice to shoot after the hot loads.
This site with some old Alliant manuals may come in handy. I think 2003 was the last year the manual had info on jacketed handgun bullets that weren't Gold Dots. Alliant Manuals
How old? Looks like the 46th edition or older? If I recall they stopped the spiral binding with the 46th edition.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
That was the 44th. I have the PDF version in my phone so it’s always my first go to for older loads.
Do you have one of those revolvers in 45/70? Those look badass.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
That doesn't even look like a muzzle flash. It looks like the sun! 45/70 Manhattan Project load.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Yeah it was pretty awesome.
That was the HSM bear load. I think it was a 430 grain at 1850 advertised velocity.
Surprisingly comfortable to shoot. I would take that over a Smith X frame any day.
Holy crap!
peterk123
NES Member
So....................... you probably need to make sure your thumb is not extended beyond the cylinder gap, right?
Pete
So....................... you probably need to make sure your thumb is not extended beyond the cylinder gap, right?
Pete
Thumb, pine trees, anything remotely flammable within 50 ft!
That is one hell of a flame
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
So....................... you probably need to make sure your thumb is not extended beyond the cylinder gap, right?
Pete
Yeah it's not something you can rest on a bag to shoot. You won't have a bag left when you're done.
If anyone has a chance to buy one I would highly suggest it.
Lee first addition had a shit ton of info and maybe some rifle loads for 38 ?
I have seen 357 rifle loads but dont recall seeing 38spl specific to rifle?
I have Quick loads so if you shoot me some info like barrel length, load info I can run it and see what the pressures are like for the length of the bore?
heres a quick look with a JHP 3.5 BE and 24" barrel As you can see pressure spikes and drops quick with bulls eye
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I then put in 8.5 grains of 2400 which I quess is about max for this bullet and seating depth...
Thats some fancy software! I like it and thanks for running it.
This is what I'm going to try next.
16.5 inch barrel (Henry steel carbine).
158 grain jacketed soft point......probably 9 grains of 2400 powder (9.4 is Max according to Lyman 50th). Winchester small primer. Lyman 50 says 1.49 oal.
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So comparing bullseye......
Bullseye pressure has dropped to like 1700psi at 10 inches down the bore.....
With 2400 it's still well over 2,000psi.
Bullseye is obviously a terrible powder for jsp projo out of a carbine. Very interesting because cast lead runs fantastic with bullseye powder.....and accurate out of that rifle!
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peterk123
NES Member
So is the issue with bullseye is that it is too fast? Really interesting data and a great way to learn why one would want faster or slower powders. The use of different powders is like a black magic art to me.
Lee 1st edition has some great info on powder burn rates and much more.
That's what I'm gathering from my reading. Bullseye is very fast burning powder......so from my reading.....and now experience...a jacketed bullet has more friction to get it started......and keep it moving down the bore.....especially a 158 grain. Bullseye burns so fast it seems the energy is all used getting the bullet started moving......and the added friction of a copper jacket needs powder still burning toward the end of a longer rifle length barrel......and bullseye isn't doing that. In my snub revolvers the 158 jacketed bullets do well with 3.5 grains bullseye.
My goal is to find a 38 or 38+p load for 158 grain jacketed that will work in both guns. Not perfectly in both guns but 50 yards accuracy with the rifle and acceptable accuracy to say 50 feet with the revolvers.
What I'm learning though ......is that finding that middle of the road is going to show some negatives in one or the other. I'm going to fathom a guess that 2400 powder through a snub revolver is going to have crazy muzzle flash in a +p load....because it's a slow burning powder.
I'm going to make up 20 of them with 2400 this afternoon.....may test them tonight.
158 grain sjp
9 grains 2400
Winchester primers
1.49 oal
Per the Lyman manual.
Have you tried IMR 4227?
I had the best results with that out of a 20" carbine, but that was coated lead .357's 158's.
Not the best stuff for a snub though
I had the best results with that out of a 20" carbine, but that was coated lead .357's 158's.
Not the best stuff for a snub though
I have not tried that one. I've only used 700x and bullseye for 38 special....with cast bullets those powders make a great load for both revolver and the carbine. It's just recently I acquired jacketed bullets at a great price (actually cheaper than what I was paying for cast) so I'm trying to get a load together that'll work for the carbine and revolvers. Learned quick that jacketed 158 for 38 special is a whole different thing than cast lead.
I was considering going to 125 grain jacketed to see how that works but found that the Henry hates lighter bullets. The groupings went to hell with 125s. So I'm trying to work up a 158 grain jacketed 38 load. Even if I have to go to +p I'm fine with that.
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peterk123
NES Member
Not that what I am shooting is comparable but I am pushing a 158 grain swc hitec coated lead bullet out of my Henry Big Boy using 13.5 grains of 2400. I was using 14.5 grains, but decided I wanted to leave some room for error. No idea about the OAL becuaue I crimp to the cannelure. I suspect it would be around 1.49. It works great. We hit steel plates at 120 yards standing and unsupported. I believe that in theory jacketed bullets can take more powder. I wonder if it would make sense to start a bit higher and work your way down, if there is any concern.
With that said, my expertise in this matter is limited so take my recommendation with a grain of powder
Pete
