Any thoughts on camo in a SHTF situation? Would a camo that best matches your current local terrain be best in a hunting and avoiding the zombies in a SHTF situation or would a generic military type camo have an added benefit?
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+1 avoid the ninja lookOh, and avoid black, nothing in nature is black (well almost). a mid-dark grey or dark blue works best at night.
Camo may suggest some sort of militaryness, which may be better to avoid in times of crisis..
Natural colors in earth tones work best and don't stand out as much in the regular world (pun intended).
From another website; Hiding in plain sight.
Camo may suggest some sort of militaryness, which may be better to avoid in times of crisis..
Natural colors in earth tones work best and don't stand out as much in the regular world (pun intended).
+1 avoid the ninja look
I agree in a major civil unrest or moderate SHTF its probally a good Idea to not appear military or LE.
Earth tone work clothes like Carhart & dickies are well built & are availble in some nice hues.
MULTICAM
I like flecktarn also..wish it was just a little lighter in color overall
Personally I think people underestimate ACU. If you get the initial new brightness out with some wear and a few washings it can adapt pretty well with many places (worst may be dark green forest)
If you get some natural stains in from the surroundings (dirt, dust , mud, grass stains) the pattern absorbs it pretty well. Uniform construction itself could be improved, but the pattern is not as bad as people make it out to be.
ACU was a poor choice for the Army to field. Its good if your fighting in a rock pile, or limited urban night those are the only two places where it MAY adapt to. There is nothing universal about it. In short it was a awful decision that the Army is looking to reverse. The more the uniform is washed, it loses its IR resistance and becomes brighter, not darker, I dont know of any fabric that gets darker with repeated washings. In regards to stains and dirtiness, its a uniform. It is unprofessional for it to be stained or dirty, further stained uniforms are unserviceable. Having tested ACU down at USASS, it doesn't work, its a liability for the soldier and was a rushed design. Rumor has it initially Crye was unable to produce enough MultiCam in order to meet the Army's needs thus ACU won. Having used both, MC and ACU in Iraq, ACU is a horrible platform, period. It pales in comparison to the capabilities of MC, the issued uniforms are of poor quality (the Paraclete uniforms are however very well constructed) It also just doesn't present a neat, professional appearance.
Please tell me what you think of the ABU.
I think the ABU is a poor offshoot of the ACU. It retains the same colors in a tiger-stripe pattern. Tiger-stripe is useful in heavily vegetated terrain. The colors do not match what the pattern is used for. It has minimal camouflaging properties as it mostly consists of shades of blue. It is less effective than the ACU pattern. In this fight for each service to have their own pattern uniform it wastes service budgets for the development and fielding of the uniforms as well as fielding equipment in a matching pattern. The material of the ABU is of a temperate 50/50 blend twill. It is not available in ripstop thus is an extremely heavy weight/ hot uniform. This was apparently not thought through, given the theaters Airmen are deployed to. Any Airmen that are in combat support roles IE: EOD are issued ACU uniforms, or ACU flight crew uniforms made of Nomex. The cut of the uniform closely resembles the former BDU pattern. Thus the usable parts of the ACU are not on this new uniform. But it is a good garrison uniform as it can be ironed and present a neat, clean appearance. Blue boots. Desert Tan boots are readily available in the DOD system. The AF switching to blue boots really does not achieve any tactical advantages. It is again a costly, wasteful venture.
Thank you! I've been saying that to the new kids in the Guard with me. They're reply is "But is has so many pockets!"
Which you're not allowed to carry anything in, for fear of FOD.
I love the military.
The ACU uniform was the death of standards and discipline in the Army. 90% of the Army arnt in any sort of direct combat role. When deployed, on mission. Yeah use your pockets within reason. The Paraclete uniforms like I said are great given thought was put into where the pockets are located. But by getting rid of a great uniform like the BDUs with black boots. There is no professionalism with the ACU. Garrison and mission are two different worlds. Lazy NCOs with no standards, discipline or grasp of Army regs allow these new soldiers get by and turn into an embarrassment. When I pull into a military installation here it drives me nuts the lack of standards some people hold themselves to with their uniform. Professionalism is key in anything you do.
I hear its a f-ing abortion now. They have mandatory quiet time, less stress, and now instead of doing real PT they do some watered down Cross-Fit shit. My buddy's wife is a DS at FLW, I was thoroughly disgusted hearing some of the things like they are not allowed to yell at soldiers or make corrections. Soldiers can now ship to their units without passing BMQ or APFT. The Army is going to hell in a hand basket.
Multicam seems to be a favorite in this thread. I can't find any pieces for less than $60 though.
I like the MARPAT woodland camo for New England, far superior to the ACU. I usually just wear a durable pair of earth tone Carhart pants with an appropriately camouflaged top. Vietnam era tiger stripe is nice too. Snatch up any pieces of the Desert Storm era "Night Time Desert Camo", its great.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Night_Camouflage
Also rare is the USMC experimental "T-Pattern" urban camo.
http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/00245.php
As far as all black (ninja style) uniforms/clothing goes, save that for your ops on the water. That's why Zodiac CRRC's are black.
ACU was a poor choice for the Army to field. Its good if your fighting in a rock pile, or limited urban night those are the only two places where it MAY adapt to. There is nothing universal about it. In short it was a awful decision that the Army is looking to reverse. The more the uniform is washed, it loses its IR resistance and becomes brighter, not darker, I dont know of any fabric that gets darker with repeated washings. In regards to stains and dirtiness, its a uniform. It is unprofessional for it to be stained or dirty, further stained uniforms are unserviceable. Having tested ACU down at USASS, it doesn't work, its a liability for the soldier and was a rushed design. Rumor has it initially Crye was unable to produce enough MultiCam in order to meet the Army's needs thus ACU won. Having used both, MC and ACU in Iraq, ACU is a horrible platform, period. It pales in comparison to the capabilities of MC, the issued uniforms are of poor quality (the Paraclete uniforms are however very well constructed) It also just doesn't present a neat, professional appearance.
Any thoughts on camo in a SHTF situation? Would a camo that best matches your current local terrain be best in a hunting and avoiding the zombies in a SHTF situation or would a generic military type camo have an added benefit?
is that an airsoft team in the last pic?
2 main points here. The pattern and the uniform design itself.
The uniform itself...needs refinement...overall velcro sucks and the seams in general were weak and areas needed reinforced. But I thought it was an overall comfortable design.
Brightness...I think you and I have a different definition of brightness. By Brightness I mean the brilliance of the colors. Wash them, they fade...same principle with BDU's, the difference between a fresh new uniform and then one that is faded with a little wash and wear. And ANY material will begin to lose its IR resistant properties the more and more it is washed...including multicam...so why you bring this point up I do not know.
Starching also accelerates the loss of IR resistant properties in in material. I wonder how many BDU's were basically ruined in the effort to look neat and professional in garrison. Stains...absorbing color from the terrain around you...there is a reason why many people still think plain old OD greens are good and they work.
Rumor....I love rumor...but I doubt if Crye could not have upped manufacturing capacity to meet demand, then they would have never made it to the top 4. Maybe the reason why Multicam was not adopted because in the testing it finished 3rd overall out of the final 4?
Natick's conclusion after testing:
"Overall, the best relative performer was the Desert All Over Brush design, followed by Woodland Track Mod, Scorpion Mod, and Urban Track
(in ranking order). (Scorpion Mod being Multicam)
ACU pattern as issued was not even part of testing...there was no digital pattern tested. Personally I think they found what they thought the best color combination for a "universal" (woodland, desert urban) camouflage and then adapted it to digital pixel pattern based on MARPat.
Here is a powerpoint on the testing from Natick... http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004issc/wednesday/dugas.ppt
A brush pattern (maybe similar to a light color Rhodesian/Transvaal DPM? which I like very much also) was most effective. Again these are controlled tests...which some like and some don't. But Multicam did not. So now maybe the Army will adopt the 3rd place winner. Makes sense.
In a few posts I see you mention many times a point about looks and looking professional. While it has it merits, I never fully agree with the whole "spit and polish makes you/is indicative of a better soldier" concept. Some of the most professional fighting forces in history had lax uniform standards which would probably make you rant.
Even the Brits and Aussies (at least in theater) dont seem so concerned on uniform standards and I would hesitate to question or doubt their professionalism. On the flip side of the coin, I have an Iraqi friend who is here in the US...her brother (in the per-2003 Iraqi military) was put in Jail for 4 days for not having his headgear on properly.
While I never said that ACU pattern was the be all end all, I think it is more effective than most people seem to believe and not as bad as its detractors make it out to be. Definitely more effective in more than the 2 environments you list.
Conversely I have not drunk the Multicam Koolaid.