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What antenna for 6M DX?

cockpitbob

cockpitbob

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Naturally a yagi on a rotator is the better way to go, but when the magic band is open can I have some fun and work DX with just a J-pole? Does the polarization get scrambled and become unimportant the way it does with HF?

Obvously from the question I don't need the ultimate in performance. Also, I'm taking my time getting my wife acclimated to me sticking antennas on the house and it's not time to try a yagi on her yet.
 
I guess what I need to know is if polarization matters for 6M DX.

I was thinking of a copper pipe j-pole, but the horizontal loop looks interesting. A j-pole would be simpler to build and is vertically polarized for 6M FM repeaters, but DX is what I'm really intersted in so if horizontal works better for DX than I'll probably build a square loop.
 
cockpitbob said:
I guess what I need to know is if polarization matters for 6M DX.

I was thinking of a copper pipe j-pole, but the horizontal loop looks interesting. A j-pole would be simpler to build and is vertically polarized for 6M FM repeaters, but DX is what I'm really intersted in so if horizontal works better for DX than I'll probably build a square loop.
Click to expand...

IIRC opposite polarization is a 20 db loss and it lessens with distance. I'm sure there was a time that copper antenna was good idea but with the cost of copper through the roof I'd be way more inclined to buy this....
http://www.arrowantennas.com/gp/gp52.html
 
i used to use a copper pipe j-pole....

'course the whole reason i got into AR was to build antennas... only one i ever bought was a tri-band mobile mag mount....

ETA: if the cost of copper pipe is a concern, you can make a j-pole out of ladder line....
 
cockpitbob said:
I guess what I need to know is if polarization matters for 6M DX.

I was thinking of a copper pipe j-pole, but the horizontal loop looks interesting. A j-pole would be simpler to build and is vertically polarized for 6M FM repeaters, but DX is what I'm really interested in so if horizontal works better for DX than I'll probably build a square loop.
Click to expand...

The answer is YES.
Horizontal polarization is much better for DX because you're trying to "skip" the signal off the ionosphere.

Here's an easy explanation:
Ever skip a rock across water?
You find a flat rock, hold it horizontally along the same plane as the water, then toss it while adding spin with your finger.
The rock will skip off the top of the water as opposed to just falling in and sinking.
Now try it while holding the rock vertically, 90 degrees from the plane of the water and see what happens?
 
Or a horizontal dipole I guess - was working ~1000-1500 miles last week into on a low (15') Windom dipole while on vacation. My Cobra-160' dipole at my home qth seems to work ok as well.

-Tim
KQ1Y
 
Due to space restrictions I cannot use a beam for 6 so I have been running a Par Electronics SM-50 with great success covering the continental US, Canada, South America but nothing into Europe yet (thought the distances into SA were further than to EU). I recently ordered a Loops-N-More 6M halo and look forward to seeing how it performs.
 
cockpitbob said:
A Moxon....hmmmm. Those look very appealing. I could fit one of those in my attic with a rotator. I'm glad you mentioned it.
Click to expand...
The Par SM-50 is a great antenna but is really more for portable operations, I have it stored in a 48 level case and deploy from hilltops with a painters pole. But if you are thinking of permanent, or semi permanent in your attic, I would probably build one for a fraction of the price.

www.kg4jjh.com/pdf/6m Moxon.pdf

That said, if you can fit a 2-3 element beam up there you will probably be a lot happier.
 
patio said:
That said, if you can fit a 2-3 element beam up there you will probably be a lot happier.
Click to expand...
That surprises me. From what little I've read the Moxons have performance between a 2 and 3 element yagi. Whatever I put up there I plan to build it. I think I can fit a 2 element yagi and it might be a little easier to construct than a Moxon.

Decisions, decisions.
 
Instead of starting a new thread, I'll just bring this one back. I finished work on a 6m Hex Beam today, got it up on 6 sections of mil surp mast, somewhere between 20-24' high. The band isn't exactly open right now but I worked a friend a whole 8 miles away with no trouble, aimed about 45 degrees off of his QTH.

I have one more section of mast I'll add. The SWR lowered and flattened slightly as I added sections, so I'm hoping one more will make it even better.

I used 14# bare copper wire my friend gave me, $2 4-foot fiberglas fence posts from Tractor Supply for the spreaders, and made the hub out of a scrap of 1" pine (it's 1" thick, 9" across). The spreaders go into holes drilled into the edge of the hub, and there's a hole through the center to slide over the top of the mast. I just ordered some 90 degree connectors because the poor coax has to make quite the bend.

For cable connections, I made a little plexiglas bracket for an SO-239 connector and some mounting bolts for the driven elements. You can see how the spreaders go into the hub here too. Sorry for the blurry pic, I had to grab a screen grab of a zoomed in video to show the detail.

I contemplated adding a 10m element as well but I think the spreaders are too short. If I had used 6' driveway markers instead it would have fit no problem.

Element lengths came from here: Specs | Build your own Hex Beam

1656867395947.png

1656867128925.jpeg

SWR is okay, below 3:1 across the band. I'll keep checking 50.125 throughout the day and see if I can get some contacts.

1656866970877.jpeg
 
You can get by with a wire dipole.
all you need is some wire some sort of insulators and a 4:1 balen and a feed line rg8x will work fine. You could even do two dipoles one vertical and one horizontal and swap back and forth to change polarization as needed. These are not large long antennas and are enexpinsive and easy to build.
 
JDL said:
You can get by with a wire dipole.
all you need is some wire some sort of insulators and a 4:1 balen and a feed line rg8x will work fine. You could even do two dipoles one vertical and one horizontal and swap back and forth to change polarization as needed. These are not large long antennas and are enexpinsive and easy to build.
Click to expand...
I built a dipole (no balun, but plenty of coax) but the problem I had was supporting the ends and the middle. I had a bad setup, but that made it worse for me. I actually thought about just hanging it vertically which would have been perfectly fine for DX, but I opted for the more complicated method. Still no contacts though.

For grins I should still hang the dipole vertically and see how it does. It's only about 9' end to end, you're right about it being small.

Honestly I've worked Europe on 40/20/?? using hamsticks just mounted to a length of rebar jammed in the ground, no radials. Just about everything works.

In other news, the armstrong rotor I've been using was fine when I was setup in the backyard. But when I'm in the house it's a drag to run out and turn the mast. The single element hex beam has very little wind load and shouldn't get spun in the wind like a yagi or dipole would (since it's basically a circle). I've been looking at DIY ideas, which are very doable. But I know I'm going to want to add other bands or put something bigger up, so I'm considering proper rotors/rotators.
 
There, I finally got a contact on 6m. My buddy was texting me with stations he was hearing, and their bearings, so I spun the beam to the NE and got a guy 1000km away in FO60. When I finally got setup I could hear him taking my friend's call, who was almost directly behind me.

Yesterday I got the hex all finished up and put back up atop 8 mil surp antenna masts, about 30' in the air. Not gonna lie, it was sketchy AF doing that alone. At least it was hella windy, too. I'm turning my thoughts to a mast attached to the house with a rotor. Running outside in my shorts is fine when it's 72 and sunny, but even then it gets to be a drag.
 
There was an opening yesterday afternoon and I worked a guy up in FN96 at the northeast tip of Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia. I had my hex beam about 12' up and pointed at him, and he was on a tuned up 40m dipole. We were between 57 and 59 the whole time. We chatted for a while before my buddy the next town over texted me to break so he could pick up that grid square. But it just goes to show even the wrong antennas can work.
 
cockpitbob said:
I guess what I need to know is if polarization matters for 6M DX.

I was thinking of a copper pipe j-pole, but the horizontal loop looks interesting. A j-pole would be simpler to build and is vertically polarized for 6M FM repeaters, but DX is what I'm really intersted in so if horizontal works better for DX than I'll probably build a square loop.
Click to expand...
Yes. It matters a lot.

And you really need a yagi to play well on 6.
 
ToddDubya said:
There, I finally got a contact on 6m. My buddy was texting me with stations he was hearing, and their bearings, so I spun the beam to the NE and got a guy 1000km away in FO60. When I finally got setup I could hear him taking my friend's call, who was almost directly behind me.

Yesterday I got the hex all finished up and put back up atop 8 mil surp antenna masts, about 30' in the air. Not gonna lie, it was sketchy AF doing that alone. At least it was hella windy, too. I'm turning my thoughts to a mast attached to the house with a rotor. Running outside in my shorts is fine when it's 72 and sunny, but even then it gets to be a drag.
Click to expand...
Real hams go out in -5 degree weather in their underwear to turn beams. 😄
 
cockpitbob said:
I guess what I need to know is if polarization matters for 6M DX.

I was thinking of a copper pipe j-pole, but the horizontal loop looks interesting. A j-pole would be simpler to build and is vertically polarized for 6M FM repeaters, but DX is what I'm really intersted in so if horizontal works better for DX than I'll probably build a square loop.
Click to expand...
I realize this post is 12 years old, but if square loop means a squalo, they're omnidirectional so not great.
 

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