Westford cop’s loaded handgun found in recycling bin

[Rob Boudrie]

Officially the officers juvenile record is sealed, but memories are long and there are those who know. But MA law is clear that a juvenile conviction is only a disqualifier if, when translated to an adult offence, it would be a disqualifying felony. possession?

Sealed juvenile records in MA are accessible for firearms licensing purposes. It is not necessary for someone to "remember".

Also, a finding of delinquency is translated to a felony if the underlying action would have been a felony if committed by an adult.

 

[allen-1]

Sealed juvenile records in MA are accessible for firearms licensing purposes. It is not necessary for someone to "remember".

Also, a finding of delinquency is translated to a felony if the underlying action would have been a felony if committed by an adult.

Ah yes, to quote Dickens: "The law is an ass".

The concept of sealed records is to say that the offense is over and done with, it's not to have an effect upon the rest of the person's life. The more I read about Massachusett's licensing laws in comparison and contrast to Connecticut's, the more convinced I am that Connecticut's are more reasonable.

Which is pretty damn funny, since you now have to have a permit to purchase ammunition in Connecticut, you can't buy an AR, you can't buy "high capacity" magazines, etc...

BUT - Connecticut operates on the principle that they will issue you a permit unless they have reason not to. It's pretty clearly spelled out in the statutes, and doesn't include juvenile offenses, (or the autocratic whim of the police chief in your town).

There's a lot I don't like about Connecticut, including its firearm laws, (I left Connecticut), but they issued me a firearms permit after revoking mine because they were legally obligated to do so, and I've had no problem renewing it.

 

[42!]

Sealed juvenile records in MA are accessible for firearms licensing purposes. It is not necessary for someone to "remember".

I'm well aware of this, my point was that others, outside of LE, know what the conviction was.

Also, a finding of delinquency is translated to a felony if the underlying action would have been a felony if committed by an adult.

I think that's what I said.

 

[rocket500]

So it would appear this guy is a Federal PP, has LTC revoked but a MA judge is permitting him to carry?

 

[UNSUB]

was it Glock? If it was it better be in plastic recycling.

C'mon Boris Westford has strict recycling policies. Garbage must go in the refuse container.

 

[42!]

So it would appear this guy is a Federal PP, has LTC revoked but a MA judge is permitting him to carry?

MA disqualified does not necessarily make him Fed PP. And no judge was involved.

I heard something about him getting his LTC back a few years later, but given the source (CoP) and mumbling involved in the answer, I'm not so sure. It was more like (not a direct quote) "His LTC is all set", that kind of thing.

Maybe someone can clarify something for me. Can a disqualifying juvenile conviction be set aside through an appeal to the FRB for a resident LTC. I know the FRB can get involved in non-res LTCs, but I'm not sure about resident LTCs. Or would someone need to go to the Governor for a pardon with restoration of rights?

 

[amm5061]

Or would someone need to go to the Governor for a pardon with restoration of rights?

Would a pardon get around the issue of suitability for a normal person, though?

 

[larueminati]

The ol' doublestandard

 

[42!]

Would a pardon get around the issue of suitability for a normal person, though?

Suitability is different from a statutory disqualifier. Suitability is basically the opinion of the CoP (or LO licensing officer). I'm the perfect example. I have no convictions and nothing that would make me Fed PP or Disqualified under MGL, and I have both a Utah and NH non-res LTC. But the my local LO believes I'm unsuitable (the same Lt. Wareham who has a disqualifying conviction). Moving can sometimes fix a suitability issue, depending on where you move to. But in reality moving isn't easy (and you shouldn't have to), I've been looking for work in NH for over a year now with no luck.

 

[Radtekk]

DAs don't look at LE as members of their community. They look at them as the muscle of the government. They have no incentive to prosecute.

I feel EXACTLY the same way about the first two sentences. While there ARE, without debate, some good cops, I think the majority are benign at best regarding their treatment of us lower class citizens. I define good cops as thinking, reasoning, actually trying to make a difference, rather than cop-sheep just getting through the day to collect a paycheck.

An example of an unthinking jacka$$? The cop who came in to my CT room earlier with a custodial patient, complained that his coffee "feels weird", opened the cup, found some sort of thick, syrup-like substance with the viscosity of rubber cement and proceeded to dump the cup out in my sink. "Dude, the garbage can was RIGHT THERE next to you." "Oops..." "Yeah, don't worry, I'm sure maintenance has nothing better to do..." My guess? He thinks he did nothing wrong and that I'm the jacka$$ for pointing out his behavior. Was there something wrong with the coffee he got at Dunks? Clearly. Is that an excuse to potentially ruin my plumbing? Hardly.

Cops have a hard thankless job to do. Making it harder and thanklesser (lol, I made up a word!) is just stupid.

 

[jhblaze1]

Looks like it could be 4-15 years, actually. The recycling bin out on the street would seem to be an area a minor could have accessed the firearm:

“A violation of this section shall be punished, in the case of a rifle or shotgun that is a large capacity weapon, firearm or machine gun that was stored or kept in a place where a person younger than 18 years of age may have access without committing an unforeseeable trespass, by a fine of not less than $10,000 nor more than $20,000 or by imprisonment for not less than 4 years nor more than 15 years or by both such fine and imprisonment.”

I posted this to their FB page but they review before allowing to post so it'll never make it....I guess I'll post it on my own page and tag them then

 

[MGnoob]

"Inadvertently and unbeknownst to him, it was dropped into the recycling bin in his home," Ahern said.

He said it appears the indoor recycling bin was kept adjacent to Hartley's gun safe. At some point, the gun must have fallen out of the safe and into the bin before its contents were transferred to an outside recycling bin, Ahern said.

This is beyond belief. The gun fell out of the safe into the recycling bin?


Read more: Loaded handgun belonging to Westford cop found in recycling bin

I'll buy thats exactly how it happened.. dumb stuff happens all the time to all of us.

Other than stupid storage laws, its not much of a story.

 

[Radtekk]

"Inadvertently and unbeknownst to him, it was dropped into the recycling bin in his home," Ahern said.

He said it appears the indoor recycling bin was kept adjacent to Hartley's gun safe. At some point, the gun must have fallen out of the safe and into the bin before its contents were transferred to an outside recycling bin, Ahern said.

This is beyond belief. The gun fell out of the safe into the recycling bin?


Read more: Loaded handgun belonging to Westford cop found in recycling bin

I'll buy thats exactly how it happened.. dumb stuff happens all the time to all of us.

Other than stupid storage laws, its not much of a story.

OK, walk with me...
1) Gun properly secured in CLOSED, LOCKED safe.
2) Safe spontaneously opens.
3) Gun, defying physics, falls forward, flies laterally, then drops in to "inside bin".
4) Safe door closes and relocks.
5) Inside bin dumped in to outside bin, nobody hears approximately 5 pounds of loaded gun thudding into empty cans and bottles.
The ONLY line above even remotely believable is #1.

A question:
Is the safe in the kitchen on the counter or is the recycle bin somewhere in the living room or bed room where the safe is? Anybody here got a wife that would give up counter space to a gun safe? My wife loves me and we have more than 2 guns, no f-ing way is there ever gonna be a safe on the kitchen counter... Or a recycle bin anywhere BUT the kitchen or garage. And how many people put the bin in the garage and go out there EVERY TIME they empty a bottle or can?

A thought:
Maybe this guy has the pistol version of the "Magic Bullet" from Dallas? Not that it shoots bullets that change trajectories, but that like the aforesaid "Magic Bullet" itself the gun is able to violate the laws of physics.

 

[rocket500]

I guess this is muddied by the fact that we don’t know what he did. So it would seem he did something that disqualified him from having a MA LTC but didn’t make him a federally PP. That or he and his chief are willing to look the other way on Federal law (possible?).

MA disqualified does not necessarily make him Fed PP. And no judge was involved.

I heard something about him getting his LTC back a few years later, but given the source (CoP) and mumbling involved in the answer, I'm not so sure. It was more like (not a direct quote) "His LTC is all set", that kind of thing.

Maybe someone can clarify something for me. Can a disqualifying juvenile conviction be set aside through an appeal to the FRB for a resident LTC. I know the FRB can get involved in non-res LTCs, but I'm not sure about resident LTCs. Or would someone need to go to the Governor for a pardon with restoration of rights?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There are two or three ways to get around the juvenile conviction:

1. Governor's pardon w/restoration of gun rights
2. Get the case re-opened and disposed of with a non-conviction
3. FLRB appeal (FLRB is not the same as FRB) will probably work as well.

Although I generally advise people not to rely on "legal fiction" (not disclosing a sealed or expunged conviction even when the law allows it), there is one case where it makes sense. Consider the person with an out of state expunged or sealed juvie conviction for something that would be a felony for an adult. If the MA licensing authority finds out, they will issue a statutory denial. If the seal is kept intact, and it is not otherwise discovered, not disclosing it may be legal (check on that legal fiction thing) and allow one to get an LTC.

 

[42!]

There are two or three ways to get around the juvenile conviction:

1. Governor's pardon w/restoration of gun rights
2. Get the case re-opened and disposed of with a non-conviction
3. FLRB appeal (FLRB is not the same as FRB) will probably work as well.

Although I generally advise people not to rely on "legal fiction" (not disclosing a sealed or expunged conviction even when the law allows it), there is one case where it makes sense. Consider the person with an out of state expunged or sealed juvie conviction for something that would be a felony for an adult. If the MA licensing authority finds out, they will issue a statutory denial. If the seal is kept intact, and it is not otherwise discovered, not disclosing it may be legal (check on that legal fiction thing) and allow one to get an LTC.

I thought juvenile convictions couldn't make you Fed PP, that they were just a state thing. Now I'm going to have to go back and read it again.

 

[JAD]

Ah yes, to quote Dickens: "The law is an ass".

The concept of sealed records is to say that the offense is over and done with, it's not to have an effect upon the rest of the person's life. The more I read about Massachusett's licensing laws in comparison and contrast to Connecticut's, the more convinced I am that Connecticut's are more reasonable.

Which is pretty damn funny, since you now have to have a permit to purchase ammunition in Connecticut, you can't buy an AR, you can't buy "high capacity" magazines, etc...

BUT - Connecticut operates on the principle that they will issue you a permit unless they have reason not to. It's pretty clearly spelled out in the statutes, and doesn't include juvenile offenses, (or the autocratic whim of the police chief in your town).

There's a lot I don't like about Connecticut, including its firearm laws, (I left Connecticut), but they issued me a firearms permit after revoking mine because they were legally obligated to do so, and I've had no problem renewing it.

Certain juvenile offenses, known as Serious Juvenile Offenses (SJO) are statutory prohibitors in Connecticut.

Also, there is an element of discretion with respect to Connecticut permit issuance. Issuing authorities have the right to deny or revoke an applicant based on suitability, which is subjective. The difference between Connecticut and Massachusetts is that Connecticut has a much more effective administrative remedy available which places burden of proof on the issuing authority.

 

[Coyote33]

So, is he in jail right now?

No chance

Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?


Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?


Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?

Now, let's be perfectly clear here. "Equal protection under the law" ALSO means (or at least SHOULD mean) that those who BREAK the law should be prosecuted equally, regardless of position or station, such that those the law is supposedly designed to protect are, in fact, protected by the law violated. The total disregard for this ideal is how we get email servers in bathroom cabinets and cops who execute (I mean accidentally shoot) dogs and people, and negligently (I mean accidentally) leave their firearms in a recycling bin at the curb.

DAs don't look at LE as members of their community. They look at them as the muscle of the government. They have no incentive to prosecute.

I think someone else said it best earlier, some animals are more equal than others.

ummm...not so much. That Thin Blue Line has a mysterious way of making things alllllllll better....

"Harry Wareham, who is 43 years old, and a 16-year veteran of the Framingham Police Department with the rank of lieutenant is facing the prospect of losing his gun license because of a conviction as a juvenile when he was 15 years old."

"Wareham, who wouldn’t detail the charges he faced at 15, now finds his juvenile record has been unsealed, coming back to haunt him 28 years later."

But....the good news is he gets a free pass on multiple felonies including lying on his LTC apps for years because:

"He was given, more or a less, a second chance, and he took advantage of a judge’s wisdom who sealed the record,” said Carl. “Twenty-eight years later, the system has failed him. To take Harry off the road is a loss to this department and this community.”

Holding him accountable for multiple felonies would be a loss to the community because he's such a great guy....


Framingham Police Officer's past affects gun license


BTW...he's now the FPD licensing officer. Double standard? It's hard to believe these mother fakkers can keep a straight face.

Ah yes, to quote Dickens: "The law is an ass".

The concept of sealed records is to say that the offense is over and done with, it's not to have an effect upon the rest of the person's life. The more I read about Massachusett's licensing laws in comparison and contrast to Connecticut's, the more convinced I am that Connecticut's are more reasonable.

Which is pretty damn funny, since you now have to have a permit to purchase ammunition in Connecticut, you can't buy an AR, you can't buy "high capacity" magazines, etc...

BUT - Connecticut operates on the principle that they will issue you a permit unless they have reason not to. It's pretty clearly spelled out in the statutes, and doesn't include juvenile offenses, (or the autocratic whim of the police chief in your town).

There's a lot I don't like about Connecticut, including its firearm laws, (I left Connecticut), but they issued me a firearms permit after revoking mine because they were legally obligated to do so, and I've had no problem renewing it.

So it would appear this guy is a Federal PP, has LTC revoked but a MA judge is permitting him to carry?

The ol' doublestandard

I guess this is muddied by the fact that we don’t know what he did. So it would seem he did something that disqualified him from having a MA LTC but didn’t make him a federally PP. That or he and his chief are willing to look the other way on Federal law (possible?).

This is all just so crazy, and what is wrong overall with "the system". Two sets of standards, depending who you are, who you know, or how much money you have.

 

[MGnoob]

OK, walk with me...
1) Gun properly secured in CLOSED, LOCKED safe.
2) Safe spontaneously opens.
3) Gun, defying physics, falls forward, flies laterally, then drops in to "inside bin".
4) Safe door closes and relocks.
5) Inside bin dumped in to outside bin, nobody hears approximately 5 pounds of loaded gun thudding into empty cans and bottles.
The ONLY line above even remotely believable is #1.

A question:
Is the safe in the kitchen on the counter or is the recycle bin somewhere in the living room or bed room where the safe is? Anybody here got a wife that would give up counter space to a gun safe? My wife loves me and we have more than 2 guns, no f-ing way is there ever gonna be a safe on the kitchen counter... Or a recycle bin anywhere BUT the kitchen or garage. And how many people put the bin in the garage and go out there EVERY TIME they empty a bottle or can?

A thought:
Maybe this guy has the pistol version of the "Magic Bullet" from Dallas? Not that it shoots bullets that change trajectories, but that like the aforesaid "Magic Bullet" itself the gun is able to violate the laws of physics.

I dont think anyones is claiming it happened that way.
Place the gun on top of the safe that has papers or some shit on it, it falls in the recycling bin and goes un noticed.....maybe if you dont own many guns you could look in the safe an identity your entire collection..


You've never had a gun fall off your safe? (or behind it)

Shit like is is why you not only secure your firearms, but educate anyone in the home about them... and if somone cant be trusted with a firearm they cant be trusted in your home to begin with.

 

[71montess]

OK, walk with me...
1) Gun properly secured in CLOSED, LOCKED safe.
2) Safe spontaneously opens.
3) Gun, defying physics, falls forward, flies laterally, then drops in to "inside bin".
4) Safe door closes and relocks.
5) Inside bin dumped in to outside bin, nobody hears approximately 5 pounds of loaded gun thudding into empty cans and bottles.
The ONLY line above even remotely believable is #1.

A question:
Is the safe in the kitchen on the counter or is the recycle bin somewhere in the living room or bed room where the safe is? Anybody here got a wife that would give up counter space to a gun safe? My wife loves me and we have more than 2 guns, no f-ing way is there ever gonna be a safe on the kitchen counter... Or a recycle bin anywhere BUT the kitchen or garage. And how many people put the bin in the garage and go out there EVERY TIME they empty a bottle or can?

A thought:
Maybe this guy has the pistol version of the "Magic Bullet" from Dallas? Not that it shoots bullets that change trajectories, but that like the aforesaid "Magic Bullet" itself the gun is able to violate the laws of physics.

You lock all your guns up ?

 

[LLF]

ummm...not so much. That Thin Blue Line has a mysterious way of making things alllllllll better....

"Harry Wareham, who is 43 years old, and a 16-year veteran of the Framingham Police Department with the rank of lieutenant is facing the prospect of losing his gun license because of a conviction as a juvenile when he was 15 years old."

"Wareham, who wouldn’t detail the charges he faced at 15, now finds his juvenile record has been unsealed, coming back to haunt him 28 years later."

But....the good news is he gets a free pass on multiple felonies including lying on his LTC apps for years because:

"He was given, more or a less, a second chance, and he took advantage of a judge’s wisdom who sealed the record,” said Carl. “Twenty-eight years later, the system has failed him. To take Harry off the road is a loss to this department and this community.”

Holding him accountable for multiple felonies would be a loss to the community because he's such a great guy....


Framingham Police Officer's past affects gun license


BTW...he's now the FPD licensing officer. Double standard? It's hard to believe these mother fakkers can keep a straight face.

This is an outrageous double standard. Lt. Wareham has clearly lied about his past and for that there has to be consequences. There certainly are consequences for the rest of us! There are thousands of civilians who get rejected for licenses because of some old conviction or arrest lurking in their past. Nothing this benighted state likes better than to tell them "sorry but those are the rules". Obviously the rules need to be changed... not much chance of that!

 

[je25ff]

lol... meanwhile on a good day it would cost any of us peons an easy 5-20k to deal with tthis problem and if we ate a CWOF at the end itd be considered a success. I'd settle for him losing his job, because I don't agree with the whole prohibited person bs... not that will happen either. I doubt he'll get anything worse than driving a desk for a little while.

The scariest part of this is that the best case scenario for us would be going bankrupt due to legal fees.

 

[Radtekk]

This is all just so crazy, and what is wrong overall with "the system". Two sets of standards, depending who you are, who you know, or how much money you have.

Yup, pretty much what MOST of us are complaining about. I think storage should be up to the owner, along with acceptance of responsibility for their choice. However, in MA we HAVE storage laws. There is no (to my knowledge) statutory "carve out" for LEO's. So he's in violation. Period. Stop. End.

I dont think anyones is claiming it happened that way.
Place the gun on top of the safe that has papers or some shit on it, it falls in the recycling bin and goes un noticed.....maybe if you dont own many guns you could look in the safe an identity your entire collection..


You've never had a gun fall off your safe? (or behind it)

Shit like is is why you not only secure your firearms, but educate anyone in the home about them... and if somone cant be trusted with a firearm they cant be trusted in your home to begin with.

IIRC the article said "fell OUT of the safe" not "off". No, I've never had that happen. And of that IS what happened, he's in violation of the MGL which as I responded above apparently has no "everybody but LEO" exemption. To your last point, I agree completely but the issue HERE is "ywo-tiered justice" not "is the law reasonable?" Therefore, again, violation.

You lock all your guns up ?

Where did I say that? Truth is I have teenagers (VERY familiar with the rules) who have frequent guests and three grandchildren from 22 days old through 6 years. So regardless of what MGL says, I practice safe storage anyway. My 1911 is ALWAYS on my hip unless I'm showering or sleeping. I will not specify its location during those activities, but "immediately accessible" would be accurate. Certainly more compliant than "on top of the safe" as mgnoob alluded to.

 

[drgrant]

The scariest part of this is that the best case scenario for us would be going bankrupt due to legal fees.

Yeah it is likely expensive like a DUI or something like that, maybe worse
depending on lawyer, etc. Although potentially the "cost of moving out of MA" part is worse. (because you'll pretty much be putting that at the top of your list after the dust settles. )

-Mike

 

[MGnoob]

Yup, pretty much what MOST of us are complaining about. I think storage should be up to the owner, along with acceptance of responsibility for their choice. However, in MA we HAVE storage laws. There is no (to my knowledge) statutory "carve out" for LEO's. So he's in violation. Period. Stop. End.


IIRC the article said "fell OUT of the safe" not "off". No, I've never had that happen. And of that IS what happened, he's in violation of the MGL which as I responded above apparently has no "everybody but LEO" exemption. To your last point, I agree completely but the issue HERE is "ywo-tiered justice" not "is the law reasonable?" Therefore, again, violation.


Where did I say that? Truth is I have teenagers (VERY familiar with the rules) who have frequent guests and three grandchildren from 22 days old through 6 years. So regardless of what MGL says, I practice safe storage anyway. My 1911 is ALWAYS on my hip unless I'm showering or sleeping. I will not specify its location during those activities, but "immediately accessible" would be accurate. Certainly more compliant than "on top of the safe" as mgnoob alluded to.

The article said fell out of his safe..
Which do you think is more likely inaccurate reporting or it broke out of a secured safe?

It doesn't even matter, yes it shouldn't have ended up where it did. How it happened?? im sure the officer will try not to let it happen again.

 

[ccm75]

My guess would be that ETOH was a major factor here.
I mean come on, really.......?!

 

[Junior314]

The article said fell out of his safe..
Which do you think is more likely inaccurate reporting or it broke out of a secured safe?

It doesn't even matter, yes it shouldn't have ended up where it did. How it happened?? im sure the officer will try not to let it happen again.

I hope the authorities are as understanding of the situation as you are when it's one of us.

 

[Radtekk]

I hope the authorities are as understanding of the situation as you are when it's one of us.

ROFLMAO! Yeah, I'm sure they'd understand. Totally.

Say it "fell" off the safe. He didn't here the THUD? off or out of, fall is a fall. Fell behind? Lol. Again, thud. Fell out? Seriously? And again, thud.

Anybody who buys that story is drunk, delusional, or the cop who sold it to the reporter who believed it. NONE of whom, in my NOT so humble opinion are in touch enough with reality to either carry a gun, enforce the law, or "inform" the public. GOD, if Mythbusters was still around I'd be submitting this one.

 

[AHM]

Side note... The Westford Chief got it up his @ss that anyone renewing has to show proof of completing a gun safety class. Even if you already showed that when you got your permit last time. I almost had to take a class again until I remembered I had my hunting license.

I asked today, after getting our renewed LTCs

Executive summary: Policy isn't (and wasn't) for blanket cert. demand upon renewal.

The sole counterexample offered on the spur of the moment was some poor unnamed SOB (Not Your Situation) who really needed to get a Mass-legal cert. because of sloppy work in a prior jurisdiction.

I'm not saying that you didn't have to go off on some paper chase. However I infer that it must have been transitory and innocent circumstances. I don't think it should happen to you when you renew your renewed LTC here.

 

[Horrible]

You lock all your guns up ?

Yes! Absolutely! In perfect compliance with MA lawr!