Westford cop’s loaded handgun found in recycling bin

Her comment is probably something you could have quoted out of the glock case, how did it go? "Police have hundreds of hours of training with their firearms which makes them safer than the average citizen"...
And if that were true re training hours and safety why do they so often make these mistakes when us "average citizens" almost never do? Since there are so few highly trained officers nationwide relative to is incompetent citizens, why is it that THEY seem to have more ND's and accidental shootings resulting in death? And seriously, when was the last time a citizen left his gun in a recycle bin, restaurant bathroom, or left his rifle on the roof of his car?
 
My letter to fox25:

I understand you aired a story about the Westford police officer who "misplaced" his firearm in his recycle bin and then put the bin out. I am curious as to why you utterly failed to discuss the potential hazards to an innocent passerby (child perhaps?) who might find the gun and think it a toy being disposed of. I am also curious why you failed to mention the relevant MGL statute and penalties for such negligence, and how the law will most likely NOT be equally applied as happens all too often when police officers make similar "mistakes".
I look forward to you airing a follow-up to this story, especially once the officer returns from "paid administrative leave pending completion of an internal investigation." That sound like a fox investigating another fox with a mouth full of feathers to me. I am sure your follow-up will be fair and balanced and informative.
Thank you for your time, I look forward to a formulaic and dismissive response from a low-level hack.
 
Her comment is probably something you could have quoted out of the glock case, how did it go? "Police have hundreds of hours of training with their firearms which makes them safer than the average citizen"...

If they really do receive that much training, then its laughable. You'd learn more gun safety in a video game.
 
You know all the gripes NES has with piss poor NRA instructors? Remember that LEO instructors are just as frequently no better. This is on top of prevalent attitude in relatively safe communities where officers neglect maintenance of basic skills and physical fitness. Figure in cultures of nepotism, patronage, and downright fraud in continuing education/training/and annual re-qualifications and one can see how some politicized departments turn to shit.

The fact is many officers don't take firearms training and practice seriously because they odds of having to ever use their service weapons is very low. Other than high risk communities or special teams (SWAT, gang units, drug units, etc.) many officers never even practice outside of re-qualification season.

After the Watertown fiasco nearly every department in the metro-Boston area required their officers to re-qualify under some legitimate standards and the results were discouraging enough to require many officers to be retrained and make multiple attempts at re-qualifying.

Watertown and Newton PD also went from double to triple magazine pouches on their duty belts as standard issue. These are departments which didn't even use speed-loaders before switching to Tupperware!

I swear many departments would be better off going to S&W M&P TR revolvers or a duty version of Ruger GP-100s.
 
As was recently discussed, the same DA indicted a shooter for improper storage in Harvard who shot himself. I'm sure with their credibility on the line they will also charge the cop similarly.

when did that happen ??? what happened here ???
does anyone have a link to the thread ?
thanks
 
why is it that THEY seem to have more ND's and accidental shootings resulting in death? And seriously, when was the last time a citizen left his gun in a recycle bin, restaurant bathroom, or left his rifle on the roof of his car?
The difference in consequences, incentives and penalties in the police vs. civilian worlds might account for some of it.
 
Is violating the storage law a felony and results in being a PP?

And for that matter, does the inability to obtain a LTC prevent an on duty officer from carrying?

Yes, if convicted you are a PP for life.

Being a PP you cannot legally carry a firearm in the Commonwealth, even as a LEO.
 
Is violating the storage law a felony and results in being a PP?
Only if you are convicted. If you are a routine, under the radar case, and there are not other reasons the system wants to get you (the Fleury effect) chances are you will get a CWOF which, although it presents suitability issues, allows you to move to another state with no loss of rights.
 
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If you’re a cop you’ll get past the suitability obstacle (which ordinary folks generally wouldn’t).
 
The difference in consequences, incentives and penalties in the police vs. civilian worlds might account for some of it.
So if you're a lazy jackass that doesn't give a shit because "thin blue line" you're more likely to do stupid shit like leave a gun on a toilet paper dispenser in a public bathroom, accidentally drop your gun in the recycle bin when disposing of an empty beer, or shoot a woman walking her dog after legal hunting hours because you thought her dog's tail was a deer.

Ok, got it...
 
I actually think the guy should get a slap on the wrist but only if that applies equally to you and I. Since you and I would have to take the pipe in this situation he too should take the pipe.

These safe storage laws carry excessive penalties for “crimes” where no one was hurt.
 
So, if I go through the training cops go through, does that mean the law will not apply to me since I will be a professional?

Meaning, I can put my gun wherever I want. I can shoot puppies for barking at me, I can shoot people for looking suspicious?
 
I actually think the guy should get a slap on the wrist but only if that applies equally to you and I. Since you and I would have to take the pipe in this situation he too should take the pipe.

These safe storage laws carry excessive penalties for “crimes” where no one was hurt.
Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?

Sometimes they get away with those sorts of things, yes.
Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?

So, is he in jail right now?
Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?

Now, let's be perfectly clear here. "Equal protection under the law" ALSO means (or at least SHOULD mean) that those who BREAK the law should be prosecuted equally, regardless of position or station, such that those the law is supposedly designed to protect are, in fact, protected by the law violated. The total disregard for this ideal is how we get email servers in bathroom cabinets and cops who execute (I mean accidentally shoot) dogs and people, and negligently (I mean accidentally) leave their firearms in a recycling bin at the curb.
 
As a general principle of law, one cannot cite treatment given to others in similar situations as it is considered irrelevant.

Sure, the fact that the guy in front of me did not get a fine for speeding is not a very good defense for me to not get one. However, if there is a pattern where the cop only gives tickets to red cars and I have a red car then I should be able to say there is a predjudice. I could make the argument that if I had a blue car then I would not have been ticketed.

I could even make the argument that I am well aware that only red cars get tickets and blue cars do not and that the whole system is clearly not blind.
 
The difference in consequences, incentives and penalties in the police vs. civilian worlds might account for some of it.
DAs don't look at LE as members of their community. They look at them as the muscle of the government. They have no incentive to prosecute.
 
I think someone else said it best earlier, some animals are more equal than others.

Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?


Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?


Whatever happened to "Equal protection under the law"?

Now, let's be perfectly clear here. "Equal protection under the law" ALSO means (or at least SHOULD mean) that those who BREAK the law should be prosecuted equally, regardless of position or station, such that those the law is supposedly designed to protect are, in fact, protected by the law violated. The total disregard for this ideal is how we get email servers in bathroom cabinets and cops who execute (I mean accidentally shoot) dogs and people, and negligently (I mean accidentally) leave their firearms in a recycling bin at the curb.
 
1. 2017 (renewal).
2. After the licensing officer did the paperwork. She called me and asked me if I could Email her a pic, that is was new policy.

Yeesh. At least I'm more confident that our certs are in the gun safe, than that I had remembered to save copies of our original applications (I did).

I hope for the sake of sanity that the issue is merely that WPD had previously just checked a box, but decided more recently that they wanted to save a copy of the cert. in the applicant's Permanent Record. If so, then at worst this is a one-time only process - not a quadrennial paper chase, ad infinitum.

I wonder if there's some war story behind them deciding they wanted to see (keep?) a copy of the cert. I don't think it's being done for the hassle factor. So either someone (Westford or another town) got scrod in the past by not paying more attention to the cert, or they realized that it would be prudent.

... The licensing officer is awesome, she is very polite and cool.

Officer M.; yeah. Maybe the next time I see her I'll suggest that she warn people when they're filing for renewal that she (may) want a copy of the HFS cert. later in the process.

3. The original LTC no restrictions was from Westford. But, in case it matters, before that I had a resident alien FID from Canton, I then moved to another town, then moved to Westford and became a citizen. The day after becoming a citizen I applied to get a class A. I received the class A from Westford, and several years later did the renewal in Westford.

Thanks much. I can't imagine a more complex sequence having been aired here on NES. (I'm sure others have made even more intrastate moves, etc., but that's some history).

I was trying to determine whether it was a situation where WPD had enough confidence in its own LTC process that they were only hassling people that had transferred licenses from outside of town.

P. S. And thanks for joining the nation.
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This article is worth a read as it is an excellent example about how violations can be made up from thin air.

The EOPS has stated that a trunk is a locked case for the purpose of the safe storage law, but one of the charges is for an unloaded gun in the trunk.

Isn't the funny part where the Boxboro police chief crows about how his department is handing out free gun locks For The Children, but putting locks on the perp's firearms probably wouldn't have prevented the improper storage charges?
 
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Is violating the storage law a felony and results in being a PP?

And for that matter, does the inability to obtain a LTC prevent an on duty officer from carrying?

Yes, if convicted you are a PP for life.

Being a PP you cannot legally carry a firearm in the Commonwealth, even as a LEO.

Yes, cops that can not get an LTC, or have had their LTC revoked, do carry. There is a difference between PP (fed) and ineligible under MGL, you asked about not having an LTC (MA not frd). I know cops have carried when they are ineligible under MGL, I though I heard of PP cops carrying "on the badge" but have to admit I can't find any examples of this right now.
 
Yes, if convicted you are a PP for life.

Being a PP you cannot legally carry a firearm in the Commonwealth, even as a LEO.


ummm...not so much. That Thin Blue Line has a mysterious way of making things alllllllll better....

"Harry Wareham, who is 43 years old, and a 16-year veteran of the Framingham Police Department with the rank of lieutenant is facing the prospect of losing his gun license because of a conviction as a juvenile when he was 15 years old."

"Wareham, who wouldn’t detail the charges he faced at 15, now finds his juvenile record has been unsealed, coming back to haunt him 28 years later."

But....the good news is he gets a free pass on multiple felonies including lying on his LTC apps for years because:

"He was given, more or a less, a second chance, and he took advantage of a judge’s wisdom who sealed the record,” said Carl. “Twenty-eight years later, the system has failed him. To take Harry off the road is a loss to this department and this community.”

Holding him accountable for multiple felonies would be a loss to the community because he's such a great guy....


Framingham Police Officer's past affects gun license


BTW...he's now the FPD licensing officer. Double standard? It's hard to believe these mother fakkers can keep a straight face.
 
I can’t see any way a federally prohibited person could legally carry a firearm? Anyone able to cite an example?

Do we know what the above cop was convicted of as a juvenile?
 
I can’t see any way a federally prohibited person could legally carry a firearm? Anyone able to cite an example?

Do we know what the above cop was convicted of as a juvenile?

Officially the officers juvenile record is sealed, but memories are long and there are those who know. But MA law is clear that a juvenile conviction is only a disqualifier if, when translated to an adult offence, it would be a disqualifying felony. And the officers LTC was REVOKED in 2012 by the state because he has a disqualifying juvenile conviction. This also makes it clear that he had to have lied on his LTC app/renewal from day one.

A juvenile conviction does not make a person Fed PP. But consider who enforces the law, do you really think a PO is going to arrest another PO for possession?
 
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