Westfield sportsman's club

[426wedge]

I recieved this message from the club. Apparently, a persons barn roof had been impacted by a several bullets 2200 yards down range of the high power section. So now there has to be a volunteer range officer there to have the range open. These are volunteers mind you so this is going to have complications, meaning no range time if a range officer is not there. These bullets might be from accidental discharge or more likely someone horsing around. It just gets harder all the time.

 

[M1911]

They might not even be from the club...

Btw, that image link you have won't work. You need to upload that image to a photo hosting service like photobucket or flickr, then post a link to that service.

 

[mclina]

Damn, that sucks. How high do you have to shoot over the berm to hit the roof of a barn 2,000 yards away? That's got to be a couple hundred foot drop, depending on caliber. Definitely not just poor shooting.

 

[milktree]

two shots in the same barn 2200 yards away is either a *remarkably* consistent error, or they're not from the range.


Imagine how hard it would be to hit the same barn roof twice, 2,200 yards away, even if you were doing it on purpose.

Now imagine how unlikely it is to happen by accident.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I recieved this message from the club. Apparently, a persons barn roof had been impacted by a several bullets 2200 yards down range of the high power section. So now there has to be a volunteer range officer there to have the range open. These are volunteers mind you so this is going to have complications, meaning no range time if a range officer is not there. These bullets might be from accidental discharge or more likely someone horsing around. It just gets harder all the time.

That was my guess as to what happened. There is a thread on the subject here:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/85016-Westfield-Sportsmen-s-club-hours

You can find the text of the letter that went out to members on their home page:

http://www.westfieldsportsmansclub.com/images/SCAN0028.JPG

It is a shame as it is a great facility.

Bob

- - - Updated - - -

Damn, that sucks. How high do you have to shoot over the berm to hit the roof of a barn 2,000 yards away? That's got to be a couple hundred foot drop, depending on caliber. Definitely not just poor shooting.

They could have skipped them over the berm shooting at targets on the ground which is specifically prohibited for that reason.

 

[KMM696]

http://www.westfieldsportsmansclub.com/index.html

I'd call it possible, but improbable. There are buildings approximately 2200 yards downrange from the rifle range. There's also a largish hill behind the 300 yard berm. Of course, I have been up on that hill putting out a fire started by somebody's surplus 50bmg that turned out to include some tracer, so I get the 'shit happens' aspect of shooting. With the clubs um, gun-shy attitude since their last machinegun shoot, I don't see them loosening up anytime soon. If they stick with the proposed schedule, they're going to lose members, and mostly people who aren't retired yet and can't shoot between 8 and 4. Shame, it's a beautiful range.

 

[426wedge]

Thanx for the links guys. I did not realize the posting of it did not take. The shooting area is at 260 ft and the hill behind goes to around 400 ft give or take, so you would have to shoot pretty high to get over it. Now you have to drive there and hope there is a range officer there. Bummer.

 

[Darksideblues42]

This does not seem like a small change at all.

Also, has anyone noticed the typo in the letter?

Insure means to have coverage through a provider of a policy which provides financial protection in case of covered events

Ensure means to take steps to or make certain that something will happen.

 

[426wedge]

two shots in the same barn 2200 yards away is either a *remarkably* consistent error, or they're not from the range.


Imagine how hard it would be to hit the same barn roof twice, 2,200 yards away, even if you were doing it on purpose.

Now imagine how unlikely it is to happen by accident.

That crossed my mind as well. Maybe the neighbors are sick of the place and created the scene. How do you prove the bullet (or bullets ) was or wasn't from WSC.

 

[92G]

Several rounds at 2200 yards sounds very suspicious to me. Even if someone is waaaay off, how do you group multiple shots together at 2200 yards?? Sounds like this is unrelated to your range and looking to scapegoat, unless of course theres more info at hand.

 

[Shaggy0131]

http://www.westfieldsportsmansclub.com/index.html

I'd call it possible, but improbable. There are buildings approximately 2200 yards downrange from the rifle range. There's also a largish hill behind the 300 yard berm. Of course, I have been up on that hill putting out a fire started by somebody's surplus 50bmg that turned out to include some tracer, so I get the 'shit happens' aspect of shooting. With the clubs um, gun-shy attitude since their last machinegun shoot, I don't see them loosening up anytime soon. If they stick with the proposed schedule, they're going to lose members, and mostly people who aren't retired yet and can't shoot between 8 and 4. Shame, it's a beautiful range.

Kevin,

I can't believe that if someone's house was hit than this would not be all over the local news. To me this seems to be an easy way to effectively eliminate many members who work a typical normal work week. Also, I would recommend that more people volunteer to be RSO's but I think that regardless of RSO availability they don't want to stay open past 4PM. Typically, the only people I've seen not shoot into berms and the like are the police departments and when Smith and Wesson rents out the ranges. For me, I think it may be time to move on.

 

[mclina]

This isn't one of those deals where somebody picked up empty brass, hammered it into the side of their house, and then claimed their house was shot, is it?

I wish I could find the picture.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There is almost no way that this can be proved that it came from that club.

This is Massachsuetts. The courts would almost certainly hold that the club was obligated to prove it did not come from its ranges.

 

[KMM696]

Kevin,

I can't believe that if someone's house was hit than this would not be all over the local news. To me this seems to be an easy way to effectively eliminate many members who work a typical normal work week. Also, I would recommend that more people volunteer to be RSO's but I think that regardless of RSO availability they don't want to stay open past 4PM. Typically, the only people I've seen not shoot into berms and the like are the police departments and when Smith and Wesson rents out the ranges. For me, I think it may be time to move on.

They did hit a barn instead of a house, but I'm sure the reaction would have been bigger if someone was in there at the time. One of the issues is going to be not knowing exactly when it happened, which will make it tough to say what caused the problem and how to fix it. The Lee Sportsmans range is still dealing with the fallout from a similar issue several years ago, and in that instance they were able to figure out exactly what had happened. Lee initially closed the rifle range, and then went to RSO only - it didn't work well. Limited hours and erratic scheduling made it difficult to shoot rifles for a while, and after going through that in Lee I'm betting Westfield's new policy will cause some disgruntled members.

I miss shooting at Westfield - used to be there once a week after work. I don't get there hardly at all since I started working in Pittsfield, which is a shame. I think it's one of the best facilities in the state. I'm hoping they don't drive too many members away.

 

[Gammon]

That crossed my mind as well. Maybe the neighbors are sick of the place and created the scene. How do you prove the bullet (or bullets ) was or wasn't from WSC.

Careful investigation could establish the source of the rounds. Years ago a house in the vicinity of the Reading Rifle and Revolver Club was struck by a round and the club was blamed. A police investigation (Mass State Police, I believe) revealed that the round came from nearby Camp Curtiss Guile.

 

[M1911]

Careful investigation could establish the source of the rounds. Years ago a house in the vicinity of the Reading Rifle and Revolver Club was struck by a round and the club was blamed. A police investigation (Mass State Police, I believe) revealed that the round came from nearby Camp Curtiss Guile.

Unsubstantiated rumor has it that the round came from a Cambridge SWAT officer's MP5. Last I heard, Camp Curtiss Guild's range is still shut down, more than a decade later.

 

[teaser452]

Easy way to get rid of a gun range. Wait till other anti's who stupidly bought their houses near a gun range find out about this. No gun range will be safe!

 

[RDG]

I bet the club membership at Agawam is about to go up a few hundred members.

 

[Dana_15]

I bet the club membership at Agawam is about to go up a few hundred members.

More than likely. Too bad, Westfield is really affordable. I pay $65 for the year, that includes my wife and two kids. There are some really nice older gentlemen there, and almost all of the staff are friendly.

I was up there today for about four hours outside, great facility.

 

[jkelly1229]

How would you notice that? I smell a rat unless shooting something 338 or 50bmg not much has the oomph to go through wood at that distance and even then 1 or 2 pot shots isn't creating a huge hole don't know how you'd see that

 

[Gimlet]

The way that I heard this from one of the old timers is the house in question belongs to a guy who is friendly to the club. IF that is the case, it might not be an anti situation, which could explain the lack of media hysteria. Whether this guy is friendly or not, whether the rounds came from the club or not it still results in some pretty drastic restrictions. Westfield is the nicest (and most reasonable $) club I've ever belonged to, but I did leave for many years after the machine gun incident. They instituted several draconian knee-jerk reactions including a zero tolerance policy on anyone under 18. If my kids weren't good enough for the club then neither was I. Or my money. How are we supposed to get people into the shooting sports and on our side if we can't take them shooting?
They eventually revised the minor rules to a point I could live with but only because my kids just happened to hit the threshold. Now, I've got my wife at a point where she'd like to start shooting again after a long absence and this happens. Like many other people, she works Monday-Friday 8-5 so really, what's the point in even signing her up?
I fear Westfield may be dying the death of a thousands cuts. How many of them will be self inflicted?

 

[71montess]

How would you notice that? I smell a rat unless shooting something 338 or 50bmg not much has the oomph to go through wood at that distance and even then 1 or 2 pot shots isn't creating a huge hole don't know how you'd see that

Something smells fishy, could be Moms Demand Action

 

[Coyote33]

This is Massachsuetts. The courts would almost certainly hold that the club was obligated to prove it did not come from its ranges.

What happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?

Something smells fishy, could be Moms Demand Action

I see what you did there. ;-)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

What happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?

This is a concept only in criminal trials. Civil trials are a preponderance of the evidence or "more likely than not".

 

[boscru]

this happened at ames about a year ago. no question it DID NOT come from the club. complainant was invited to look at the range and berms and agreed with the conclusion.