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well thought out and well written

Pilgrim

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from today's Wall St. Journal:

Second-Amendment Showdown
By MIKE COX
November 23, 2007; Page A13

The Supreme Court has agreed to take up a case that will affect millions of Americans and could also have an impact on the 2008 elections. That case, Parker v. D.C., should settle the decades-old argument whether the right "to keep and bear arms" of the Constitution's Second Amendment is an individual right -- that all Americans enjoy -- or only a collective right that states may regulate freely. Legal, historical and even empirical reasons all command a decision that recognizes the Second Amendment guarantee as an individual right.

The amendment reads: "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." If "the right of the people" to keep and bear arms was merely an incident of, or subordinate to, a governmental (i.e., a collective) purpose -- that of ensuring an efficient or "well regulated" militia -- it would be logical to conclude, as does the District of Columbia -- that government can outlaw the individual ownership of guns. But this collective interpretation is incorrect.

To analyze what "the right of the people" means, look elsewhere within the Bill of Rights for guidance. The First Amendment speaks of "the right of the people peaceably to assemble . . ." No one seriously argues that the right to assemble or associate with your fellow citizens is predicated on the number of citizens or the assent of a government. It is an individual right.

The Fourth Amendment says, "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated . . . " The "people" here does not refer to a collectivity, either.

The rights guaranteed in the Bill of Right are individual. The Third and Fifth Amendments protect individual property owners; the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments protect potential individual criminal defendants from unreasonable searches, involuntary incrimination, appearing in court without an attorney, excessive bail, and cruel and unusual punishments.

The Ninth Amendment protects individual rights not otherwise enumerated in the Bill of Rights. The 10th Amendment states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Here, "the people" are separate from "the states"; thus, the Second Amendment must be about more than simply a "state" militia when it uses the term "the people."

Consider the grammar. The Second Amendment is about the right to "keep and bear arms." Before the conjunction "and" there is a right to "keep," meaning to possess. This word would be superfluous if the Second Amendment were only about bearing arms as part of the state militia. Reading these words to restrict the right to possess arms strains common rules of composition.

Colonial history and politics are also instructive. James Madison wrote the Bill of Rights to provide a political compromise between the Federalists, who favored a strong central government, and the Anti-Federalists, who feared a strong central government as an inherent danger to individual rights. In June 1789, then Rep. Madison introduced 12 amendments, a "bill of rights," to the Constitution to convince the remaining two of the original 13 colonies to ratify the document.

Madison's draft borrowed liberally from the English Bill of Rights of 1689 and Virginia's Declaration of Rights. Both granted individual rights, not collective rights. As a result, Madison proposed a bill of rights that reflected, as Stanford University historian Jack Rakove notes, his belief that the "greatest dangers to liberty would continue to arise within the states, rather than from a reconstituted national government." Accordingly, Mr. Rakove writes that "Madison justified all of these proposals (Bill of Rights) in terms of the protection they would extend to individual and minority rights."

One of the earliest scholars of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, confirmed this focus on individuals in his famous "Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States" in 1833. "The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms," Story wrote, "has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of republics, since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers . . ."

It is also important to consider the social context at the time of the drafting and adoption of the Bill of Rights. Our Founding Fathers lived in an era where there were arms in virtually every household. Most of America was rural or, even more accurately, frontier. The idea that in the 1780s the common man, living in the remote woods of the Allegheny Mountains of western Pennsylvania and Virginia, would depend on the indulgence of his individual state or colony -- not to mention the new federal government -- to possess and use arms in order to defend himself is ludicrous. From the Minutemen of Concord and Lexington to the irregulars at Yorktown, members of the militias marched into battle with privately-owned weapons.

Lastly, consider the empirical arguments. The three D.C. ordinances at issue are of the broadest possible nature. According to the statute, a person is not legally able to own a handgun in D.C. at all and may have a long-gun -- even in one's home -- only if it is kept unloaded and disassembled (or bound with a trigger lock). The statute was passed in 1976. What have been the results?

Illegal guns continue to be widely available in the district; criminals have easy access to guns while law-abiding citizens do not. Cathy L. Lanier, Acting Chief of Police, Metropolitan Police Department, was quoted as follows: "Last year [2006], more than 2,600 illegal firearms were recovered in D.C., a 13% increase over 2005." Crime rose significantly after the gun ban went into effect. In the five years before the 1976 ban, the murder rate fell to 27 from 37 per 100,000. In the five years after it went into effect, the murder rate rose to 35. In fact, while murder rates have varied over time, during the 30 years since the ban, the murder rate has only once fallen below what it was in 1976.

This comports with my own personal experience. In almost 14 years as prosecutor and as head of the Homicide Unit of the Wayne County (Detroit) Prosecutor's Office, I never saw anyone charged with murder who had a license to legally carry a concealed weapon. Most people who want to possess guns are law-abiding and present no threat to others. Rather than the availability of weapons, my experience is that gun violence is driven by culture, police presence (or lack of same), and failures in the supervision of parolees and probationers.

Not only does history demonstrate that the Second Amendment is an individual right, but experience demonstrates that the broad ban on gun ownership in the District of Columbia has led to precisely the opposite effect from what was intended. For legal and historical reasons, and for the safety of the residents of our nation's capital, the Supreme Court should affirm an individual right to keep and bear arms.

Mr. Cox is the attorney general of Michigan.
 
wow, amazing. Let us hope the SCOTUS reads this and realizes if they say the people in the 2a doesn't mean an individual they are in effect taking away all of our individual rights.

Granted the way our country has been going it seems that corporations mean a lot more than the people.
 
The guy actually cracked a book and learned something in law school. Well done!

I need help from some of the legal minds on this forum to understand how, given the historical references and other points made in Attorney General Cox's article, any intelligent person can draw a contrary conclusion. I just don't understand what the opposition uses to define their interpretation. To me, it defies logic and smacks of an anemic attempt to redefine reality - almost to the point of being pathological. Ok, I'm done.
 
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I need help from some of the legal minds on this forum to understand how, given the historical references and other points made in Attorney General Cox's article, any intelligent person can draw a contrary conclusion. I just don't understand what the opposition uses to define their interpretation. To me, it defies logic and smacks of an anemic attempt to redefine reality - almost to the point of being pathological. Ok, I'm done.

I'm not a lawyer, but from the AG's I've talked to (usually friends who are appalled when they find out I like to shoot guns and I carry a knife) I get the impression that they think that if guns are banned, no one will have guns, and there will be no more gun violence.

Then, they will get all knives banned. Then chainsaws. Pickaxes. Hammers. Baseball bats. Sticks. Rocks. Then we will all live in pods, perfectly safe from harm.

I think the AG position is a position born out of fear, irrationality, and misunderstanding. It is a position based on emotion, not logic or science. Or reality.
 
Actually, I think having some consumer safety standards for firearms is reasonable. They have them for power tools, so you don't get electrocuted. It is just when the consumer protection regulations are misused to prevent most of the perfectly safe products from being sold that there is a problem.
 
Another excellent write up and summary (in the Chicago Sun-Times no less)...


Open season on 2nd Amendment

November 23, 2007
BY STEVE HUNTLEY

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

Second Amendment

What does that mean? Does an individual have a right to own guns, or is it only a collective privilege linked to military service?

The U.S. Supreme Court is going to tell us next spring, maybe ending a long-running dispute over an individual's right to keep firearms, or maybe lighting a match to a powder keg in the presidential election.

While gun control is a popular issue in major urban areas, it riles folks in other places, especially in states in the South, Southwest and West, but also rural areas elsewhere such as Downstate Illinois. National Democrats who once touted gun restrictions on the campaign trail believe that stance cost them elections and now shy away from it. Republicans articulate a strong Second Amendment protectionist position. A high court ruling against an individual's right to bear arms would inject the issue into the campaign and could blow up the Democrats' hopes of reclaiming the White House.

A decision in favor of an individual right could defuse a campaign issue but raise fears that gun-control laws could be swept from the books everywhere. But that kind of an impact is not likely.

First, the case the court accepted this week involves a gun law in a federal jurisdiction, the District of Columbia, not in a state. Second, interestingly, the amendment on guns is the only one that has not been ruled to apply to the states, notes Randy Barnett, a former Chicago prosecutor who is now a professor of legal theory at Georgetown University. During the Reconstruction Era, Barnett says, southern states seeking to keep arms out of the hands of newly freed African Americans won a court decision to that effect. But surely a success by the pro-gun side would eventually have the high court deciding whether it applied to the states, too.

Still, it's alarmist to assert that a decision against the D.C. ban on handguns, if enforced in the states, would spell the end of of all weapon control laws. True, a handgun ban like the one in Chicago would be endangered. But it would be outright prohibition on firearms, not sensible regulation, that would be invalidated by the court. Reasonable gun control measures such as background checks or restrictions on ownership by felons or the mentally ill are perfectly compatible with an individualist ruling.

Over the coming months, we will be hearing a lot from legal authorities and historians about the meaning of the Second Amendment and the context in which it was enacted. Why was the issue of possessing arms deemed by the Founders important enough to be incorporated in the Bill of Rights? Why was the militia language included?

The only time the high court addressed the issue was in 1939, when it said a bootlegger using a sawed-off shotgun was not what the Founders intended in guaranteeing weapons for a militia. In other words, the amendment doesn't protect illegal activity. Asked about that ruling during his confirmation hearings, Chief Justice John Roberts took the reasonable position that the court had sidestepped the issue of whether there is an individual right to own a gun.

The debate will show some interesting mental gymnastics by the opposing camps. Liberals who have long argued for the most expansive interpretation of the Constitution-- for instance, to find a "right of privacy" allowing abortion, will demand the strictest reading of the Second Amendment. Conservative strict constructionists, on the other hand, will be trying to find a way to minimize the militia language.

The proponents of an individual right would seem to have the best argument. The words "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" are clearly the meat of the amendment. The militia language comes in a subordinate clause. More fundamentally, the Bill of Rights is about protecting the prerogatives of the individual. Why should this one amendment be the exception?

http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/663979,CST-EDT-HUNT23.article




The guy actually cracked a book and learned something in law school. Well done!

I need help from some of the legal minds on this forum to understand how, given the historical references and other points made in Attorney General Cox's article, any intelligent person can draw a contrary conclusion. I just don't understand what the opposition uses to define their interpretation. To me, it defies logic and smacks of an anemic attempt to redefine reality - almost to the point of being pathological. Ok, I'm done.

Check the "Legal" forum of The High Road for some knowledgeable info and insight regarding the Heller case and related constitutional issues (no disrespect to our own legal authorities... THR has a bigger pool to draw from).

Scotus Blog also has some helpful case history and commentary.
 
Actually, I think having some consumer safety standards for firearms is reasonable. They have them for power tools, so you don't get electrocuted. It is just when the consumer protection regulations are misused to prevent most of the perfectly safe products from being sold that there is a problem.

Please elaborate on whom would we be relying on to create these "safety standards." We (Massachusetts) have already had this foisted upon us with the intent to not allow any firearms into the commonwealth.
 
If we have to have standards, I'd prefer an industry trade group to set them. They would be more responsive to the market than any moribund bureaucracy.
 
If we have to have standards, I'd prefer an industry trade group to set them. They would be more responsive to the market than any moribund bureaucracy.

I think that's probably the best model. The industry has an interest in "self-policing", if they don't want the government to step in.
 
And just what problem is this supposedly solving?

I apparently missed the wave of self-destructing firearms. Other than the S&W 500 blown up by carelessness and the odd energetic disassembly of a .40 Glock, just what IS the crisis?
 
from today's Wall St. Journal:

Second-Amendment Showdown
By MIKE COX
November 23, 2007; Page A13

The Supreme Court has agreed to take up a case that will affect millions of Americans and could also have an impact on the 2008 elections. That case, Parker v. D.C., should settle the decades-old argument whether the right "to keep and bear arms" of the Constitution's Second Amendment is an individual right -- that all Americans enjoy -- or only a collective right that states may regulate freely. Legal, historical and even empirical reasons all command a decision that recognizes the Second Amendment guarantee as an individual right.

The amendment reads: "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." If "the right of the people" to keep and bear arms was merely an incident of, or subordinate to, a governmental (i.e., a collective) purpose -- that of ensuring an efficient or "well regulated" militia -- it would be logical to conclude, as does the District of Columbia -- that government can outlaw the individual ownership of guns. But this collective interpretation is incorrect.

To analyze what "the right of the people" means, look elsewhere within the Bill of Rights for guidance. The First Amendment speaks of "the right of the people peaceably to assemble . . ." No one seriously argues that the right to assemble or associate with your fellow citizens is predicated on the number of citizens or the assent of a government. It is an individual right.

The Fourth Amendment says, "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated . . . " The "people" here does not refer to a collectivity, either.

The rights guaranteed in the Bill of Right are individual. The Third and Fifth Amendments protect individual property owners; the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments protect potential individual criminal defendants from unreasonable searches, involuntary incrimination, appearing in court without an attorney, excessive bail, and cruel and unusual punishments.

The Ninth Amendment protects individual rights not otherwise enumerated in the Bill of Rights. The 10th Amendment states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Here, "the people" are separate from "the states"; thus, the Second Amendment must be about more than simply a "state" militia when it uses the term "the people."

Consider the grammar. The Second Amendment is about the right to "keep and bear arms." Before the conjunction "and" there is a right to "keep," meaning to possess. This word would be superfluous if the Second Amendment were only about bearing arms as part of the state militia. Reading these words to restrict the right to possess arms strains common rules of composition.

Colonial history and politics are also instructive. James Madison wrote the Bill of Rights to provide a political compromise between the Federalists, who favored a strong central government, and the Anti-Federalists, who feared a strong central government as an inherent danger to individual rights. In June 1789, then Rep. Madison introduced 12 amendments, a "bill of rights," to the Constitution to convince the remaining two of the original 13 colonies to ratify the document.

Madison's draft borrowed liberally from the English Bill of Rights of 1689 and Virginia's Declaration of Rights. Both granted individual rights, not collective rights. As a result, Madison proposed a bill of rights that reflected, as Stanford University historian Jack Rakove notes, his belief that the "greatest dangers to liberty would continue to arise within the states, rather than from a reconstituted national government." Accordingly, Mr. Rakove writes that "Madison justified all of these proposals (Bill of Rights) in terms of the protection they would extend to individual and minority rights."

One of the earliest scholars of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, confirmed this focus on individuals in his famous "Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States" in 1833. "The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms," Story wrote, "has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of republics, since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers . . ."

It is also important to consider the social context at the time of the drafting and adoption of the Bill of Rights. Our Founding Fathers lived in an era where there were arms in virtually every household. Most of America was rural or, even more accurately, frontier. The idea that in the 1780s the common man, living in the remote woods of the Allegheny Mountains of western Pennsylvania and Virginia, would depend on the indulgence of his individual state or colony -- not to mention the new federal government -- to possess and use arms in order to defend himself is ludicrous. From the Minutemen of Concord and Lexington to the irregulars at Yorktown, members of the militias marched into battle with privately-owned weapons.

Lastly, consider the empirical arguments. The three D.C. ordinances at issue are of the broadest possible nature. According to the statute, a person is not legally able to own a handgun in D.C. at all and may have a long-gun -- even in one's home -- only if it is kept unloaded and disassembled (or bound with a trigger lock). The statute was passed in 1976. What have been the results?

Illegal guns continue to be widely available in the district; criminals have easy access to guns while law-abiding citizens do not. Cathy L. Lanier, Acting Chief of Police, Metropolitan Police Department, was quoted as follows: "Last year [2006], more than 2,600 illegal firearms were recovered in D.C., a 13% increase over 2005." Crime rose significantly after the gun ban went into effect. In the five years before the 1976 ban, the murder rate fell to 27 from 37 per 100,000. In the five years after it went into effect, the murder rate rose to 35. In fact, while murder rates have varied over time, during the 30 years since the ban, the murder rate has only once fallen below what it was in 1976.

This comports with my own personal experience. In almost 14 years as prosecutor and as head of the Homicide Unit of the Wayne County (Detroit) Prosecutor's Office, I never saw anyone charged with murder who had a license to legally carry a concealed weapon. Most people who want to possess guns are law-abiding and present no threat to others. Rather than the availability of weapons, my experience is that gun violence is driven by culture, police presence (or lack of same), and failures in the supervision of parolees and probationers.

Not only does history demonstrate that the Second Amendment is an individual right, but experience demonstrates that the broad ban on gun ownership in the District of Columbia has led to precisely the opposite effect from what was intended. For legal and historical reasons, and for the safety of the residents of our nation's capital, the Supreme Court should affirm an individual right to keep and bear arms.

Mr. Cox is the attorney general of Michigan.


I find it interesting that the WSJ misquotes the Second Amendment (as do a lot of commentators). The fact of the matter is that the amendment, as written, violates the rules of English grammar, and, as a result and either consciously or unconsciously (or as a result of automated proof-reading), a lot of folks take it on themselves to "correct" the draftsman's error.

The problem lies in the first comma, which I (for one; to my knowledge, no one else has ever expressed such a view) believe was a result of a quill pen malfunction.
 
The problem lies in the first comma, which I (for one; to my knowledge, no one else has ever expressed such a view) believe was a result of a quill pen malfunction.

The commentary did not also explore the context used in framing the sentence. The sentence was worded to acknowledge some of the concerns of the day but guarantee the right to bear arms.

Remember, the government was shaky. There was also the concern about standing militias that would overthrow the government; people worried about allowing standing armies nonaligned with the interests of the people and its government. One militia even "borrowed" the name of G.W and threatened to storm the Government in the years after the ratification of the constitution.

Bill
 
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