Welfare Check??? What if I don't answer the door? Or, if I do, close the door on the police?

This question is why I always live in a place where I can look outside and talk to whoever is at my door without opening it... usually from a floor above them, which is a tactical advantage. Once you open the door, they take that as an invitation to force their way in.

Don't open your door for just anyone who knocks!
 
A long time ago, when I was a young and broke lad, I was an EMT and stationed for a bit in the Marlboro/Hudson area. At the time there was quite a bit of drug use and a few sober/recovery houses in the area. There was an occasional wellness check we were asked to "stand by" for. One in particular one had the local PD convinced her sister had done herself in (or was in the process of) because she was not answering the phone (cell phones not affordable for most at the time). The cops knocked loud and often for about 3-4 minutes. The the local FD showed up with a battering ram....door was opened pretty quick. Apartment was empty...walked in with my partner...made sure there was no body anywhere. Noticed Bills and collection notice strewn about the house. There maybe 15 minutes.
No idea, if she walked, drove, caught a ride, or did an overnight somewhere....but the place was empty.

So yeah, they can and will break down the door if someone convinces them you are in danger or dead
 
GL2020 said:
A long time ago, when I was a young and broke lad, I was an EMT and stationed for a bit in the Marlboro/Hudson area. At the time there was quite a bit of drug use and a few sober/recovery houses in the area. There was an occasional wellness check we were asked to "stand by" for. One in particular one had the local PD convinced her sister had done herself in (or was in the process of) because she was not answering the phone (cell phones not affordable for most at the time). The cops knocked loud and often for about 3-4 minutes. The the local FD showed up with a battering ram....door was opened pretty quick. Apartment was empty...walked in with my partner...made sure there was no body anywhere. Noticed Bills and collection notice strewn about the house. There maybe 15 minutes.
No idea, if she walked, drove, caught a ride, or did an overnight somewhere....but the place was empty.

So yeah, they can and will break down the door if someone convinces them you are in danger or dead
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So, if I answer with the door closed - that proves I'm alive. right?

Can their questions be answered from behind a closed door?

I'm just concerned that if I open the door they can forcibly detain me.

Can they say "We just want to talk to you, now open the door!"

Then they say - "Where were you on Wednesday night?"

Before I know it they are trying to get me to admit to a crime I didn't commit.

Should I just say - "I'm ok. I don't need a welfare check. I WANT A LAWYER!"

If I assert my right to a lawyer and shut the f up - the questioning has to stop - I think.


After all this it seems if a family member of friend would need to initiate the welfare check. All my family and friends know my number. As long as I can be called a welfare check can never be initiated, right.


Today was a wonderful day. I buried a cache of pre 8/1 guns in the ground in another state so nothing much of value at home. Nobody can confiscate something I don't have and I don't have to register anything for 2 years. By that time there will be widespread non-compliance so I might not need to worry much. Also, no need to register what is not in Massachusetts.
 
Reptile said:
I’m keeping them.
They are irreplaceable.
Nobody can get any more instate.
Not even for a million dollars.
Someone already tried to buy one after 8/1.
I would have considered the sale a year ago but not with this new law.
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So are you going to start a Noveske Museum or a Noveske Petting Zoo?
 
Reptile said:
So, if I answer with the door closed - that proves I'm alive. right?

Can their questions be answered from behind a closed door?

I'm just concerned that if I open the door they can forcibly detain me.

Can they say "We just want to talk to you, now open the door!"

Then they say - "Where were you on Wednesday night?"

Before I know it they are trying to get me to admit to a crime I didn't commit.

Should I just say - "I'm ok. I don't need a welfare check. I WANT A LAWYER!"

If I assert my right to a lawyer and shut the f up - the questioning has to stop - I think.


After all this it seems if a family member of friend would need to initiate the welfare check. All my family and friends know my number. As long as I can be called a welfare check can never be initiated, right.


Today was a wonderful day. I buried a cache of pre 8/1 guns in the ground in another state so nothing much of value at home. Nobody can confiscate something I don't have and I don't have to register anything for 2 years. By that time there will be widespread non-compliance so I might not need to worry much. Also, no need to register what is not in Massachusetts.
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No idea. How about walking outside, closing the door behind you and saying I’m fine.
 
Reptile said:
So, if I answer with the door closed - that proves I'm alive. right?

Can their questions be answered from behind a closed door?
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It all depends on what the context is for the well-being check. If the request is to check on you because you live alone and have a medical condition and no one has heard from you in four days and they're concerned, then answering through the door that you're alive and well and thanks for the concern but your medical issue is well under control and you're fine is probably the end of the encounter.

Conversely, if the request is to check on your well-being because you live with your wife and no one has heard from you in four days and your wife has a history of violence and you've had prior restraining orders against her and she's physically assaulted you in the past, then answering through the door that you're alive and well and thanks for the concern is not going to be the end of the encounter. The PD is going to want to physically see that you are fine of your own free will and your wife wasn't standing with you behind the door with a knife to your throat making you say you're okay and to go away. The totality of the circumstances may lead them to believe you're being held against your will and may execute a forced entry to confirm.
 
Dench said:
Breaking doors down on wellness checks is pretty common. I cant actually recall the missing person actually answering the door. Usually they were dead in the house, trapped in some weird position or simply not home.
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In your experience, does the door breaking happen mostly when the door isn't answered or even when it is?
 
Thunder Dump said:
It all depends on what the context is for the well-being check. If the request is to check on you because you live alone and have a medical condition and no one has heard from you in four days and they're concerned, then answering through the door that you're alive and well and thanks for the concern but your medical issue is well under control and you're fine is probably the end of the encounter.

Conversely, if the request is to check on your well-being because you live with your wife and no one has heard from you in four days and your wife has a history of violence and you've had prior restraining orders against her and she's physically assaulted you in the past, then answering through the door that you're alive and well and thanks for the concern is not going to be the end of the encounter. The PD is going to want to physically see that you are fine of your own free will and your wife wasn't standing with you behind the door with a knife to your throat making you say you're okay and to go away. The totality of the circumstances may lead them to believe you're being held against your will and may execute a forced entry to confirm.
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I have an attached garage so I can easily exit through two locked doors so it the police decide to hold a door that only gets them access to the garage.

In your hypothetical domestic abuse example, they are also going to require the known abuser to exit or else the door is coming off the hinges relatively quickly from my understanding.

If the wellness check is for a female living with a male assume they are entering if both of you don't exit without argument even without history of abuse in either direction.
 
This is one of the cases where LEO and Firefighters/Paramedics are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If the call is a legitimate welfare check and the person inside the house has suffered a medical incident or fall where they can't answer the door then they should break in to do the check. If the call if for a druggie or boozer who is high or passed out and doesn't answer the door should they bust in or not? How about an old person or NESer who just plain isn't going to answer the door.

How do responding authorities outside know when and if to break in? Like I said, this is a tough place for the responders and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
 
I have heard that if the cops show up and claim there was a 911 hangup from you address, they must (?) come in your home and look around to verify that everything is all right.
 
Maxrobot said:
I have heard that if the cops show up and claim there was a 911 hangup from you address, they must (?) come in your home and look around to verify that everything is all right.
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This happened to me twice. I have two daughters w/ severe autism, one day while one of them was at the office she picked up the phone and dialed 911 because they learned to dial 911 in school. I walk by her desk and see she has the phone to her ear, which wasn't uncommon because sometimes she'd pick it up and have scripted conversations w/ herself. I hear her answering questions without her asking herself the questions, which was the usual pattern. I take the phone and ask who's there "this is 911 dispatch". I told them the situation and they said they understood, but procedure is they need to send a cruiser out. I told them to be prepared that my daughter tends to give rote answers which may (probably) won't be an actual answer to their question (a la Rainman when Tom Cruise yells "He's answering a question I asked ten minutes ago!"). Female cop came, very understanding, ended without incident.

A month or two later same thing happened (have since disconnected the phone at her desk), they said the were sending a cruiser out. I waited 15 mins but we were closed so finally we just left the office. Didn't hear anything from the police after that.

I'm terrified of police encounters with my girls. One tends to answer "yeah" to almost all questions, the other "no". You can imagine what could happen if the police asks "is someone harming you? "are you feeling safe? Etc. One of them will often change her answer if you repeat a question since she thinks she may have given the wrong answer. Lots of things could go wrong if the cops question my kids although I imagine that eventually they'd catch on that my daughters answers aren't reliable. Not overly worried if we ever ended up in a courtroom because if you know how to ask them questions you can get any answer you want out of them, and I could coach a lawyer to ask questions in a manner that a jury would understand the answers aren't reliable, but it would still be a major headache.
 
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The previous owner of our house installed a heavy duty security screen door. Key in/out dead bolt. Can talk to anyone just fine through it. Not opening the door for anyone without showing a warrant. I would likely have something in my pocket in case it is posers. One never knows these days whether they are real of fake.
 
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