Weapon retention...

[MidKnight]

My brother-in-law was recently sworn in as a police officer in a town just outside of Philly. He's been shooting for some time now, and a few years ago, he bought an HK 9mm to hopefully carry someday. However, his department issues Glocks, and you are not permitted to carry personal firearms. This led to a discussion about our mutual distaste for glocks. I just don't like their trigger. He doesn't like the fact that dry fire practice isn't easy... and the trigger, among other things.

However, after we hung up the phone I realized when I was explaining to my fiance why he wouldn't like his new weapon... the Glocks don't have a safety. I've known that since I first saw one, but never thought about it.

I once hear a stat (can't cite it) that it takes a person 3 seconds to shoot an unfamiliar gun with out a safety engaged... but it takes on average 13 seconds to find and disengage the safe, then pull off the first shot.

This led me to think about LEOs and how they are sometimes shot with their own weapons. So, this question is to everyone, especially to LEOs who carry Glocks... is the lack of a safety and weapon retention as big a concern as I would make it?

 

[Nickle]

There IS a safety on a Glock. It's that little piece in the middle of trigger.

A Glock shooter (and all shooters) need to rely on the non-mechanical safety - THE OPERATOR.

 

[Admin]

13 seconds seems a little long. And I couldn't resist one of my favorites.

 

[MidKnight]

A Glock shooter (and all shooters) need to rely on the non-mechanical safety - THE OPERATOR.

I'm with you on that. But for a person that doesn't carry concealed, one that carrys on his hip all day, it's not out of the question for a BG to grab the gun. Nor would it be odd to see the gun get grabbed in a struggle. And my contention is, that the extra few seconds of challenge that a safety provides could mean life or death for the LEO, after he loses possesion of the weapon.

I'm not worried about ADs or NDs with a no-safety Glock.

 

[MarkM]

Make sure he buys a good holster, the the BGs can't get his gun out of the holster then they wont be able to use it against him.

 

[Nickle]

Derek, I think that pic is absolutely hilarious. And, I'm a serious Glock fan.

 

[Executive]

The vast majority of Police Departments and LEOs have traditionally carried weapons without an external "safety" since the 1800s. It is only in the past 20-25 years that major departments switched to semi-autos from revolvers, and the revolver has no "safety". I'm guessing that the statistics of LEO being shot with his own weapon have remained consistent even with the switch to semi-auto. I understand that many, many departments use the operationally similar (to a revolver) GLOCK, but I suspect that the statistics probably vary little among departments carrying revolvers/GLOCKS/SIGS versus those carrying traditional DA with external safety. The most important thing remains to keep control of your weapon.

Regards,
Chris

 

[cdkayak]

Out of all the pistols I have that I could or would use for CC, only the HK and 1911 have a manual safety. And the HK I carry de-cocked in DA/SA mode, safety off. I don't feel uncomfortable with that at all. As you said, we carry concealed though & it's different for him.

As already recommended make sure he gets a good holster. Also recommend he take additional training on weapon retention. A good holster that's difficult for a BG to snatch the weapon from will give him the extra seconds to use the weapon retention training.

 

[hminsky]

It seems to me that the biggest "safety" feature for a pistol would be to not keep a round chambered.

 

[Weerd Beard]

It seems to me that the biggest "safety" feature for a pistol would be to not keep a round chambered.

Or you could just leave it home, tucked in bed.....

I would never trust myself to "Israeli draw" in a SHTF situation.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[centermass181]

There IS a safety on a Glock. It's that little piece in the middle of trigger.

A Glock shooter (and all shooters) need to rely on the non-mechanical safety - THE OPERATOR.

"Delta or not, thats a hot weapon."

 

[centermass181]

and another thing, have you ever tried to get a pistol out of a triple retention holster? its damn near impossible.

 

[MarkM]

Or you could just leave it home, tucked in bed.....

I would never trust myself to "Israeli draw" in a SHTF situation.

Getting off-topic a bit but at college I shared an apartment with an Israeli ex-SF guy who (said he) was in Sayeret Matkal and took part in the Sheik Abdul-Karim Obeid.

At the time (as I lived in England) I owned a couple of blank-firing replica handguns and he enjoyed showing off his Israeli draw.....

Talk about fast: he mostly did it from inside his jeans (due to a lack of a holster) but it was all one-handed - draw up at first then as soon as the end of the barrel was clear pushing down and racking the slide by pushing the rear sight against his jeans.

 

[matt]

Keeping one in the chamber has GOT to be safer than that!

 

[Weerd Beard]

Keeping one in the chamber has GOT to be safer than that!

+1 to that!

Spinning a lever-gun to chamber a round LOOKS damn cool.....I wouldn't do it tho.

-Weer'd Beard