We need an AG like Wisconsin's

[jar]

The Wisconsin carry permit law went in to effect yesterday, and their Attorney General was issued permit #1.

"“We were careful in screening people for the first permits who were going to be understanding if the process didn’t flow smoothly,” he said. “Part of the reason why I went No. 1 was because if things went awry, who am I going to complain to?”"

He also had this to say:
“This is a historic day for the state of Wisconsin,” Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said. “As a long-time supporter of Second Amendment rights, I’m encouraged to see people exercising this freedom, and they can rest assured we’ll do our best to process applications from qualified residents as quickly as we can. I’m extremely proud of the DOJ employees who have worked to get people their licenses promptly and efficiently.”

They had already issued 120 licenses of the 150 applications they received as of yesterday afternoon. The application PDF on their website has already been downloaded 80,000 times.

 

[Bob P]

The Wisconsin carry permit law went in to effect yesterday, and their Attorney General was issued permit #1.

"“We were careful in screening people for the first permits who were going to be understanding if the process didn’t flow smoothly,” he said. “Part of the reason why I went No. 1 was because if things went awry, who am I going to complain to?”"

He also had this to say:
“This is a historic day for the state of Wisconsin,” Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said. “As a long-time supporter of Second Amendment rights, I’m encouraged to see people exercising this freedom, and they can rest assured we’ll do our best to process applications from qualified residents as quickly as we can. I’m extremely proud of the DOJ employees who have worked to get people their licenses promptly and efficiently.”

They had already issued 120 licenses of the 150 applications they received as of yesterday afternoon. The application PDF on their website has already been downloaded 80,000 times.

LOL at his initial quote. I like him already.

 

[appraiser]

These are the same Wisconsin officials that are violating the right to unionize and collectively bargain.

I'm not impressed.

 

[FreeWillie]

These are the same Wisconsin officials that are violating the right to unionize and collectively bargain.

I'm not impressed.

Those "rights" were legislated by the Wisconsin Legislature. They have now been undone by the same Legislature. Where is your beef? The Constitution does not give you the "right" to unionize nor collectively bargain. Collective bargaining is not a RIGHT, it's a legislative privilege. Why do unions oppose a "right to work" law?

 

[Bob P]

Those "rights" were legislated by the Wisconsin Legislature. They have now been undone by the same Legislature. Where is your beef? The Constitution does not give you the "right" to unionize nor collectively bargain. Collective bargaining is not a RIGHT, it's a legislative privilege. Why do unions oppose a "right to work" law?

Constitution doesn't prohibit unions or the regulation thereof, so it's allowed on a federal level. The 10th Amendment gives the states th right to regulate anything not addressed by the Constitution. The WI State Legislature passed a law prohibiting public sector unions. The AG enforces those laws. Deal done.

 

[william_munny]

Constitution doesn't prohibit unions or the regulation thereof, so it's allowed on a federal level. The 10th Amendment gives the states th right to regulate anything not addressed by the Constitution. The WI State Legislature passed a law prohibiting public sector unions. The AG enforces those laws. Deal done.

Yeah, that'd be like us blaming Martha for the MA AWB. Even if she didn't suck at life, she couldn't do a whole lot about it.

 

[Bob P]

Yeah, that'd be like us blaming Martha for the MA AWB. Even if she didn't suck at life, she couldn't do a whole lot about it.

If you want to blame Martha for SUPPORTING it, that's fine but by enforcing it she's just doing her job.

 

[william_munny]

If you want to blame Martha for SUPPORTING it, that's fine but by enforcing it she's just doing her job.

Exactly. And it's not like she can strike it from the books either. Not sure if my post came across as sarcastic, that was not intended. (Nor was it support for Martha, though I'm pretty sure you got that )

Same case in WI re: AG and union laws.

 

[FreeWillie]

Constitution doesn't prohibit unions or the regulation thereof, so it's allowed on a federal level.

No it's not. Power not specifically granted to the Federal Government reverts to the State and The People. It's in the Constitution. If the Constitution doesn't grant power to the Federal Government (doesn't address it) then power falls to the State and ultimately the People. Unions on a Federal level are unconstitutional.

 

[Bob P]

No it's not. Power not specifically granted to the Federal Government reverts to the State and The People. It's in the Constitution. If the Constitution doesn't grant power to the Federal Government (doesn't address it) then power falls to the State and ultimately the People. Unions on a Federal level are unconstitutional.

Your logic chain breaks down.

1) Everything is legal unless it's prohibited

2) The Constitution sets out what the federal government can do/regulate

3) Anything not enumerated in the Constitution falls to the state and the people (10th Ammd)

4) Anything that the applies to the Fed ALSO applies to the States (14th)

5) The Constitution is mute on Unions ergo people have the right to form them as it's not prohibited

6) Because of 5 above and the 10th Amendment the states have the power to regulate them.

 

[FreeWillie]

Your logic chain breaks down.

1) Everything is legal unless it's prohibited

2) The Constitution sets out what the federal government can do/regulate

3) Anything not enumerated in the Constitution falls to the state and the people (10th Ammd)

4) Anything that the applies to the Fed ALSO applies to the States (14th)

5) The Constitution is mute on Unions ergo people have the right to form them as it's not prohibited

6) Because of 5 above and the 10th Amendment the states have the power to regulate them.

As you wisely stated in #3 Anything not enumerated in the Constitution falls to the state and the people (10th Ammd). Since Unions are not addressed in the Constitution then their existence falls to the State and The People. Then you pervert your argument in #5 by stating "The Constitution is mute on Unions ergo people have the right to form them as it's not prohibited" But it is prohibited on a Federal level. Not a State level, just a Federal level. The Federal government has no authority to promote or regulate a Federal Union as it isn't specifically allowed in the Constitution. Only the States can allow a Union to form. So all Federal Unions are unconstitutional.

 

[Bob P]

As you wisely stated in #3 Anything not enumerated in the Constitution falls to the state and the people (10th Ammd). Since Unions are not addressed in the Constitution then their existence falls to the State and The People. Then you pervert your argument by stating "The Constitution is mute on Unions ergo people have the right to form them as it's not prohibited" But it is prohibited on a Federal level. Not a State level, just a Federal level. The Federal government has no authority to promote a Federal Union as it isn't specifically allowed in the Constitution. Only the States can allow a Union to form. So all Federal Unions are unconstitutional.

That isnt what we're talking about. The concern was state level public sector unions.

 

[sig2009]

These are the same Wisconsin officials that are violating the right to unionize and collectively bargain.

I'm not impressed.

Not really. They are trying to get rid of the rediculous pensions and benefits after people retire. I know of no major Fortune 500 company that pays medical benefits after you retire so why should the state government.

 

[FreeWillie]

That isnt what we're talking about. The concern was state level public sector unions.

Then we agree that States have the right to regulate unions and their legislated "rights". We also then agree that Federal unions are unconstitutional and should be dissolved.

 

[Bob P]

Then we agree that States have the right to regulate unions and their legislated "rights". We also then agree that Federal unions are unconstitutional and should be dissolved.

yes to the first. As to the second, federal unions CREATED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT are unconstitutional. Federal Employee unions created independently are not. A group of people can do what they want so long as it isn't prohibited by law.

 

[jar]

That isnt what we're talking about. The concern was state level public sector unions.

What we were supposed to be talking about was the big step toward honoring the right to self defense taken in Wisconsin today.

 

[Bob P]

What we were supposed to be talking about was the big step toward honoring the right to self defense taken in Wisconsin today.

Wholeheartedly support that.

 

[jar]

From another forum: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7291&d=1320265473

 

[FreeWillie]

As to the second, federal unions CREATED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT are unconstitutional. Federal Employee unions created independently are not. A group of people can do what they want so long as it isn't prohibited by law.

Where is the authority for Federal employees to unionize specified? And who has authority over them if you have already conceded that Federal unions are unconstitutional?

 

[Dr_Scholl]

Didn't take long for this thread to get hijacked.

Quick! Someone reference Hitler and/or the Nazis!

 

[BigDaddyAl]

What we were supposed to be talking about was the big step toward honoring the right to self defense taken in Wisconsin today.

Thanks for posting jar. This thread went way off track.

 

[CRSIII]

Didn't take long for this thread to get hijacked.

Quick! Someone reference Hitler and/or the Nazis!

Where is that Stuka in dive mode gif?

 

[Dr_Scholl]

Where is that Stuka in dive mode gif?

Good question. We need it.

 

[Bob P]

Where is the authority for Federal employees to unionize specified? And who has authority over them if you have already conceded that Federal unions are unconstitutional?

A) I didn't and B) stop hijacking the thread.

 

[drgrant]

The Wisconsin carry permit law went in to effect yesterday, and their Attorney General was issued permit #1.

"“We were careful in screening people for the first permits who were going to be understanding if the process didn’t flow smoothly,” he said. “Part of the reason why I went No. 1 was because if things went awry, who am I going to complain to?”"

He also had this to say:
“This is a historic day for the state of Wisconsin,” Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said. “As a long-time supporter of Second Amendment rights, I’m encouraged to see people exercising this freedom, and they can rest assured we’ll do our best to process applications from qualified residents as quickly as we can. I’m extremely proud of the DOJ employees who have worked to get people their licenses promptly and efficiently.”

They had already issued 120 licenses of the 150 applications they received as of yesterday afternoon. The application PDF on their website has already been downloaded 80,000 times.

Sounds like they are moving along nicely, for a state where CCW didn't even exist not all that long ago. They went from being worse than MA to being better in a stroke of a pen. Then again, doesn't take much to pull that off.

-Mike