WC860 Surplus in the Northeast?

[s11033]

No problem. The Swiss GP-11 decaps very nicely with water and a broken Lee 30 caliber decapper. You'll have to find a rod for 6.5mm, but that shouldn't be a big deal.
FWIW, the RCBS tool works pretty well when adjusted correctly, but it's much more expensive than a simple metal rod and water.
Some primers just don't come out readily and should go into the scrap bucket, unless you simply like to waste all your time and energy to save one piece of brass. I've found South African 7.62x51 can be tough and GEVELOT 7.62 MOD 49 are almost impossible.

Man, if berdan primers showed up again, I'd buy a K31 in a heartbeat. Such a cool rifle!

What would it take to get a large batch on the market? Are they not made anymore? Are they just not viable economically, or is there another reason that they're not being sold? If so, would a large group buy warrant an import?

It sure seems like there's a demand for them.

Thanks!

Steve

 

[s11033]

No problem. The Swiss GP-11 decaps very nicely with water and a broken Lee 30 caliber decapper. You'll have to find a rod for 6.5mm, but that shouldn't be a big deal.
FWIW, the RCBS tool works pretty well when adjusted correctly, but it's much more expensive than a simple metal rod and water.
Some primers just don't come out readily and should go into the scrap bucket, unless you simply like to waste all your time and energy to save one piece of brass. I've found South African 7.62x51 can be tough and GEVELOT 7.62 MOD 49 are almost impossible.

Man, if berdan primers showed up again, I'd buy a K31 in a heartbeat. Such a cool rifle!

What would it take to get a large batch on the market? Are they not made anymore? Are they just not viable economically, or is there another reason that they're not being sold? If so, would a large group buy warrant an import?

It sure seems like there's a demand for them.

Thanks!

Steve

Speaking of WC872, I was looking for data for H570 and it was mentioned as being similar to WC872. Can't say if this is so, but it was mentioned in some of the forum posts.
In case anyone is looking for data on older powders, such as H570, I did find the following (can't guarantee this data, of course):

H570 Data

From Hornady Handbook, 1979

.264 Winchester Magnum - Win. case, Rem. 9 ½ primer
140-gr. Spire Point - 71.3 to 76.0 grs. - 2900 to 3100 fps
160-gr. Round Nose - 66.1 to 71.7 - 2500 to 2800

7mm Remington Magnum - Peters case, Fed. 215 primer
175-gr. Spire Point - 71.6 to 76.6 - 2600 to 2800

.300 H&H Magnum - Win. case, Win 120 primer
220-gr. Round Nose - 68.0 to 78.0 - 2300 to 2600


From Speer #6, 1964

.257 Roberts Ackley Improved - Remington case, Rem. 9 ½ primer
100-gr. Speer 257-100-6-SP - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2705 to 2934 fps
120-gr. Speer 257-120-10-SP - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2699 to 2865

.25-06 Remington - Arsenal case (reformed .30-'06?) - CCI 200 primer
100-gr. Speer 257-100-6-SP - 59.0 to 63.0 - 3035 to 3253 fps
120-gr. Speer 257-120-10-SP - 59.0 to 63.0 - 2924 to 3113 fps

.257 Weatherby Magnum - Western cases, CCI 200 primer
100-gr. Speer 257-100-6-SP - 75.0 to 79.0 - 3132 to 3322 fps
120-gr. Speer 257-120-10-SP - 74.0 to 78.0 - 3034 to 3222

6.5x.257 Roberts - Remington case, Rem. 9 ½ primer
140-gr. Speer 263-140-10-SP - 53.0 to 57.0 - 2290 to 2492 fps

6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser - Norma cases, CCI 200 primer
140-gr. Speer 263-140-10-SP - 52.0 to 56.0 - 2315 to 2513 fps

.264 Winchester Magnum - Winchester case, CCI 200 primer
120-gr. Speer 263-120-6-SP - 75.0 to 79.0 - 3275 to 3457 fps
140-gr. Speer 263-140-10-SP - 71.0 to 75.0 - 3194 to 3313

.270 WCF - Remington case, CCI 200 primer
150-gr. Speer 277-150-6-SP - 61.0 to 65.0 - 2672 to 2820 fps
170-gr. Speer 277-170-GP-SP - 61.0 to 65.0 - 2612 to 2793

.270 Weatherby Magnum - Remington case, CCI 200 primer
130-gr. Speer 277-130-6-SP - 79.0 to 83.0 - 3175 to 3318 fps
150-gr. Speer 277-150-6-SP - 79.0 to 83.0 - 3106 to 3258
170-gr. Speer 277-170-GP-SP - 75.0 to 79.0 - 2882 to 3056

.280 Remington, 7mm-06, 7x64mm - Remington case, CCI 200 primer
145-gr. Speer 284-145-6-SP - 59.0 to 63.0 - 2540 to 2683 fps
59.0 grs. MAXIMUM for Model 760, 740 rifles
160-gr. Speer 284-160-10-SP - 59.0 to 63.0 - 2597 to 2761
59.0 grs. MAXIMUM for Model 760, 740 rifles

7x61 Sharpe & Hart - Norma case, CCI 200 primer
145-gr. Speer 284-145-6-SP - 73.0 to 77.0 - 2862 to 3055 fps
160-gr. Speer 284-160-10-SP - 73.0 to 77.0 - 2833 to 3034

7mm Remington Magnum - Remington case, CCI 250 primer
130-gr. Speer 284-130-6-SP - 79.0 to 83.0 - 3024 to 3191 fps
145-gr. Speer 284-145-6-SP - 79.0 to 83.0 - 2974 to 3156
160-gr. Speer 284-160-6-SP - 79.0 to 83.0 - 2962 to 3113

7mm Weatherby Magnum - Western case, CCI 200 primer
130-gr. Speer 284-130-6-SP - 80.0 to 84.0 - 3034 to 3189 fps
145-gr. Speer 284-145-6-SP - 78.0 to 82.0 - 2943 to 3080
160-gr. Speer 284-160-6-SP - 78.0 to 82.0 - 2916 to 3060

.300 H&H Magnum - Western case, CCI 200 primer
180-gr. Speer 3085-180-6-SP - 79.0 to 83.0 - 2783 to 2939 fps
200-gr. Speer 3085-200-6-SP - 75.0 to 79.0 - 2614 to 2729

.308 Norma Magnum - Norma case, CCI 200 primer
200-gr. Speer 3085-200-6-SP - 81.0 to 85.0 - 2680 to 2853 fps

.300 Weatherby Magnum - Remington case, Rem. 9 ½ primer
180-gr. Speer 3085-180-6-SP - 92.0 to 98.0 - 2969 to 3121 fps
180-gr. Speer 3085-180-6-SP - 89.0 to 95.0 - 2833 to 3027

.338 Winchester Magnum - Western case, CCI 200 primer
275-gr. Speer 338-275-55-SP - 79.0 to 85.0 - 2390 to 2629 fps

Yep, a full case, slightly compressed, is 55-56 gr of WC872 from what I've gathered. A full case is required to achieve enough pressure for complete combustion. 52 gr sounds like a good starting point, but I've read you can't fit enough WC872 in a 6.5x55 case to get anywhere near any pressure limits. It actually surprises me that the velocities are so respectable.

Best,

Steve

 

[mac1911]

Oh that would be awesome, thanks a lot for the info! I've seen hydraulic decapping for berdan primers and it actually doesn't look that bad.

Steve

I built a primitive hydro decaper , a hard wood dowl to fit the neck and a small mallet. On hot summer days I fill a bucket sit on the grass and decap after about 500 cases I'm cooled off from the plunking and smacking.

 

[NavelOfficer]

... Are they not made anymore? Are they just not viable economically, or is there another reason that they're not being sold? If so, would a large group buy warrant an import?

My guess is that the Russian trade embargo put an end to importation of these. I'm sure Murom still makes them for the rest of the world.
Used to be that the KV-24Ns were also available, but I found these weren't always 100% as I often had hang fires. These are for the 7.62x39mm supposedly, but I've used them in a pinch as replacements for the KV-7,62Ns. Seems as though the primer cup was shallower on the 24s, as I recall.
Even though Murom makes all sizes of berdan primers, I've never seen any but the two mentioned in the US. The 6,47mm primers would resurrect many .303 British and 7.62x54 Russian cases, but I've never seen them in the US. Fortunately, the Albanian brass-cased 54R uses the KV-7,62N primers. There are some .303 British cases that also utilize the .217" diameter berdan primers.
You can always accumulate the Prvi ammo and stay with boxer-primed cases and not even bother with the rest, I suppose (but that wouldn't be any fun!).
As yet, I've never figured it worth the effort to convert by machining the berdan to boxer primers. Many do this, but I'd find it easier to buy a few boxes of Prvi and go from there.

 

[mac1911]

Man, if berdan primers showed up again, I'd buy a K31 in a heartbeat. Such a cool rifle!

What would it take to get a large batch on the market? Are they not made anymore? Are they just not viable economically, or is there another reason that they're not being sold? If so, would a large group buy warrant an import?

It sure seems like there's a demand for them.

Thanks!

Steve


Yep, a full case, slightly compressed, is 55-56 gr of WC872 from what I've gathered. A full case is required to achieve enough pressure for complete combustion. 52 gr sounds like a good starting point, but I've read you can't fit enough WC872 in a 6.5x55 case to get anywhere near any pressure limits. It actually surprises me that the velocities are so respectable.

Best,

Steve

plenty of boxer primed ammo around for the k31 for not a lot of money or wait for sales on brass. The swiss surplus ammo is very good stuff but your not going to find it much cheaper than new production. Last GP11 i bought was .57 per round a few years ago and then it vanished when it came back again it was .72 av.

 

[mac1911]

Man, if berdan primers showed up again, I'd buy a K31 in a heartbeat. Such a cool rifle!

What would it take to get a large batch on the market? Are they not made anymore? Are they just not viable economically, or is there another reason that they're not being sold? If so, would a large group buy warrant an import?

It sure seems like there's a demand for them.

Thanks!

Steve


Yep, a full case, slightly compressed, is 55-56 gr of WC872 from what I've gathered. A full case is required to achieve enough pressure for complete combustion. 52 gr sounds like a good starting point, but I've read you can't fit enough WC872 in a 6.5x55 case to get anywhere near any pressure limits. It actually surprises me that the velocities are so respectable.

Best,

Steve

they seem to come in waves and when they are available reloaders who load berdan buy 10s of thousands of them.
Back when the TULA berdans where abundant one of the guys in our group bought 3 cases at 50k per case.

 

[DW357]

plenty of boxer primed ammo around for the k31 for not a lot of money or wait for sales on brass. The swiss surplus ammo is very good stuff but your not going to find it much cheaper than new production. Last GP11 i bought was .57 per round a few years ago and then it vanished when it came back again it was .72 av.

I just buy new boxer primed PPU 7.5x55 brass and avoid needing to mess around with berdan primers. The new PPU cases are about 50 cents a piece and well worth it in my opinion. But I realize many like to tinker and use berdan primers etc. To each their own.

 

[jpm]

Glenn's has berdan primers on the shelf when I was there on black friday weekend. Either Tula or Wolf if I recall

 

[s11033]

Yeah, realistically I will never need more than about 60 cases of 7.5 Swiss. I think buying three boxes of Privi would be a good investment. Do the 7.5 Swiss Privi cases have the same problems as their 6.5 Swedes? I know the rim diameter is incorrect and so is the case base diameter, which leads to premature case head separations.

I'll check with Glenn's on the primers. They may be good to stock up on anyway.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[NavelOfficer]

Do the 7.5 Swiss Privi cases have the same problems as their 6.5 Swedes? I know the rim diameter is incorrect and so is the case base diameter, which leads to premature case head separations.

There may be miniscule dimensional variations, but most 7.5x55mm cases I've used fit snugly into the Lee #3.
I agree, with the R-P 6.5x55mm you'll need the Lee #2. Most others, not all, are better with the #3 shell holder.
If you ever reload "HotShot" (is that Igman...? I forget now) 6.5x55mm, watch the tiny flash holes; they keep pulling the pin out of my decap die stem. Drill them out slightly and they'll be good to go for future reloads.

 

[s11033]

So I'm receiving a battle pack of 200 M14 blanks tomorrow for testing. They're relatively expensive at about 10 cents each plus shipping, but they should give me an idea of what to expect when trying to reload them. Once I've remanufactured a few, I'll decide whether or not to buy the bulk order from J&G. The deciding factor will be the proportion of bad primers. It would suck to have to tear down any more than 2%-5% of them due to misfires.

I also managed to neck up the scrap .17 rimfire cases to form jackets for swaging bullets. If I end up going all the way with the J&G blanks and swaged bullets, they should cost me about 18 cents per round if I don't reload them after firing and don't factor in duds or equipment. That price also includes some pretty nice boxes for long-term storage.

Steve