Washington DC vs. Florida

joe6486 said:
While I always avoid confusing correlation with causality, I imagine the difference in gun laws is at least a notable factor..
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That would be an understatement...
 
derek said:
What boggles my mind is the left wing continues to ignore cold hard facts...
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It's not just that.. their thinking process is literally different than ours. Not to generalize but they never try to address the core or REAL problem.... that would be politically incorrect! Like- violent crime is a bigger factor in the inner cities where there isn't as many two parent families, etc. And God forbid they try to start with basic values! Hell they don't even like God!

Sorry- my inner self is coming out and I'm not being PC. [smile]
 
Nickle said:
When the facts fail to support your position, ignore the facts. You CAN'T be wrong.
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Ann Coulter claims all you need to do when you don't like the facts is to complain louder about somethinf totally irrelevant.
 
Of course, she's being as sarcastic as I am, and about the same group of people.

Only big difference between her and I is she's a Conservative, I've been called a Libertarian.
 
Lugnut said:
It's not just that.. their thinking process is literally different than ours. Not to generalize but they never try to address the core or REAL problem.... that would be politically incorrect! Like- violent crime is a bigger factor in the inner cities where there isn't as many two parent families, etc. And God forbid they try to start with basic values! Hell they don't even like God!
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Yeah, so I actually think the case for more guns=less crime is a lot clearer than that for more religion=less crime, so IMO we shouldn't try to confuse the two issues.

I don't begrudge people their belief in a deity, but no one has demonstrated to me even a correlation between religious belief and a lower propensity for criminal behavior, much less a causal relationship. And I'm not the only one who thinks this, which means you immediately cause people to tune out when you link God to guns. Linking the two reminds me of the leftist-cause dead-heads: the booths about "gay marriage" and "stop eating baby cows" and "black transsexual lesbians support biofuel" that you see popping up at every left-leaning event, causing everyone who isn't a die-hard commie to roll their eyes at the entire spectacle.

Most of us heathens are law-abiding and ethical despite lacking a belief in any god. I don't think it's a stretch to say I have a much more well-developed philosophy regarding the inherent injustice in denying people the right to self-defense than most Americans do, which by a simple counting argument means most of the believers in America. I don't think there's any causality there; but neither do I think there's any causality in the converse.

Cheers,
Kyle
 
Although I don't condone it, you can go on the Brady Bunch's website and look at the letter grades for each state, then log onto the FBI's site and access the Uniform Crime Reports, and you will see a direct corellation between Brady grades and crime.Vermont and Alaska, very well done! You two have the coveted F-, and it should come as no surprise that you also have the lowest crime rates in the entire country! Kaleeeeforneeeyah and Mass should follow your example.
 
Kyle- I don't want to cause an uproar (although I'm sure I can) or religious debate. On the other hand I think you really missed my primary point- guns don't kill, people do. And "most" (arguably all) people that commit violent gun crimes clearly don't have ANY decent values IMHO. Now whether you get good values from religion, your family or friends doesn't really matter to me. I would argue that good values can come from a solid family upbringing or sincere belief in a religion (most religions that I know of strictly forbid the reckless and sensless killing and shootings of people). So it simply comes down to having good core values... where you get them I don't really care. If you don't have them then the propesity to fail in life increases IMHO....
 
Lugnut said:
Kyle- I don't want to cause an uproar (although I'm sure I can) or religious debate. On the other hand I think you really missed my primary point- guns don't kill, people do. And "most" (arguably all) people that commit violent gun crimes clearly don't have ANY decent values IMHO. Now whether you get good values from religion, your family or friends doesn't really matter to me. I would argue that good values can come from a solid family upbringing or sincere belief in a religion (most religions that I know of strictly forbid the reckless and sensless killing and shootings of people). So it simply comes down to having good core values... where you get them I don't really care. If you don't have them then the propesity to fail in life increases IMHO....
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I think what he was trying to say is that mentioning "God" in a discussion about guns and crime, will get people to ignore everyrthing else you have to say from that point on because you're just a "Right Wing Whacko". I'm not saying you are, but if you're trying to have this discussion with someone who is anti-gun, that's the first thing that's going to come to their mind.

I tend to aggree with Kyle.
 
Lugnut said:
Kyle- I don't want to cause an uproar (although I'm sure I can) or religious debate. On the other hand I think you really missed my primary point- guns don't kill, people do. And "most" (arguably all) people that commit violent gun crimes clearly don't have ANY decent values IMHO. Now whether you get good values from religion, your family or friends doesn't really matter to me. I would argue that good values can come from a solid family upbringing or sincere belief in a religion (most religions that I know of strictly forbid the reckless and sensless killing and shootings of people). So it simply comes down to having good core values... where you get them I don't really care. If you don't have them then the propesity to fail in life increases IMHO....
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Agreed.

Edit: I also agree with Fester that what I was targetting specifically was the *perception* that people will draw from statements like that in your earlier post. It doesn't matter what you *really* think: when trying to persuade someone of something, you have to know your audience. :)

Cheers,
Kyle
 
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I have been called a right wing wacko before... but with a serious conversation with anti gun people I usually manage to tone it down. Usually. I am not religious zealot by any means... but I do believe in God and I'm ok with that. [wink]
 
Nashmack said:
Vermont and Alaska, very well done! You two have the coveted F-, and it should come as no surprise that you also have the lowest crime rates in the entire country! Kaleeeeforneeeyah and Mass should follow your example.
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Alaska and Vermont are High Occupational Hazard areas for Criminals.

Most homes have at least a rifle, many have handguns. Few people carry up here, but since no permit is required, there's no telling who is armed when in public.
 

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