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Warren Trashes 'Obscene' Profiting off Students, While Textbook She Wrote Costs $250

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by kevin9, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. kevin9

    kevin9

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  2. citoriguy

    citoriguy NES Member

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    She actually doesn’t set the price of the textbook - the publisher does.
     
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  3. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

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    PDFs don't cost anything. [grin]
     
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  4. Skysoldier

    Skysoldier Forum Curmudgeon NES Member

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    That is not the point! The point is, how much does she make in profit from sales of those textbooks!
     
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  5. Zappa

    Zappa Road Warrior NES Member

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    She's the last one who should say anything about the high cost of college, she was paid $350K a year by Harvard to teach ONE law class, and she doesn't even hold a law license in the state she was teaching in.
     
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  6. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    And she probably had nothing to do with it. She got paid to put her name on it.

    But still, she knew what the publisher would sell it for. Everyone knows how much college textbooks cost.

    And, because she knew, it is just as bad as if she was profiting (which she is in a way because she got paid).
     
  7. Chrisf350

    Chrisf350

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    The hypocritical left strikes again
     
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  8. Lucas McCain

    Lucas McCain

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    What's the title of the book? How to be a shrieking scarecrow. With a nails on chalkboard forward?
     
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  9. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    she probably has one in Tribal law on her reservation. right?
     
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  10. swatgig

    swatgig NES Member

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    Title is “The Law of Debtors and Creditors: Text, Cases, and Problems”. Amazon has various edition ranging from $8 to over $300.

    The worst part about casebooks for law school is that the vast majority of the content is published opinions from various courts. Very little content is actually written by the author. Then they publish new editions every few years, so you can’t buy a used book. They’ll include some new cases, and the page numbers are different.
     
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  11. Bonesinium

    Bonesinium

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  12. alpineboard

    alpineboard

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    One of my sons' engineering books, a few years ago was $400, one book. Crazy part is , all of the assignments are given out and handed in on the colleges internet system. Every thing is done via computer now. The class is taught using a touch board, and all can be seen later via each students personal computer. Some classes the book is not even cracked open once. But you still need to buy them, just in case.
     
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  13. JayMcB

    JayMcB NES Member

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    After the semi-annual rape scene from my daughter's college Bursar's office, we got an extra dry ream from them yesterday for an additional 163.00 for a 'digital textbook'.

    $163....and It's not even printed.
     
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  14. dontpanic

    dontpanic

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    This was true even back in the stone age when I got my economics degree. For my final year I bought no econ textbooks and had my best year, gradewise (though a lot of that was due to me having a much better focus after taking two years off).
     
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  15. C. Stockwell

    C. Stockwell NES Member

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    Somewhat correct. End of the day, the author has to get paid. Certain law professors continuously update law school textbooks with new versions and some books (for instance my Wills and Trusts book from last fall) were originally written by now-dead guys and are still being updated by living authors.

    The author of a law school text book usually compiles and updates textbooks rather than actually writes them. Some law school textbooks have a fair amount of writing (say for a trial skills class - you can't teach that through case law). Others, like torts and constitutitional law, are little more than barely strung-together volumes of cases.

    The biggest problem with law school textbooks is that the whole market is run by precisely two companies: West and Lexis. Schools don't usually publish textbooks like what will happen sometimes in undergrad. There's no other companies really publishing textbooks besides West and Lexis. And the bar prep stuff is somewhat similar - you have Kaplan and BARBRI as the two market leaders with Themis also making inroads.

    A .pdf is intellectual property. Someone has to create the .pdf. That effort and time has value, making the .pdf worth something.

    In the grand scheme of things, not much. Most law school profs who "write" textbooks keep their prof job as their day job.

    My law school specifically poaches practitioners who are not licensed in the state to avoid the appearance or possibility of nepotism or intellectual incest. Which is hilarious because law is the only academic field where you can quote yourself and get points for it (cough law review cough).

    I'm sure @swatgig remembers this, but for people who haven't been to law school, there's a grey market in one-year old law school textbooks that are either the same edition as this year's classes ($$$) or are an edition or two off ($). The hardo's (myself included) will buy the professor's suggested version of the textbook to ensure that we've got the notes and note cases. The cheaper, less-hardo people will buy older editions.

    The only thing you actually need in law school is the note cases and the notes. Or you have to know someone who gives a shit about them and is willing to teach them to you.

    Law school and undergrad economics are totally different. To be successful in law school, and I'm talking summa cum laude in law school, you actually have to read and take notes on the assigned readings. If you forgo the formal readings assigned by the professor, you have to find a substitute like hornbooks or supplements by the same publishing companies (if you have a West textbook, use a West hornbook or supplement) to make sure you understand the particular lens of the law being taught by your professor.

    I 4.00'ed as a business undergrad and I read the textbook for precisely one class - freshman accounting. Reason for that was that the textbook literally contained all the instructions to getting an A/100 in the class if you read carefully and attentively. Law school is a lot of dense reading, approximately 250 pages a week. Sufficed to say, many people eventually get behind in their readings or strategically chose to ignore some readings over others.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  16. ThePreBanMan

    ThePreBanMan

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    College books are an egregious racket for sure. But they've got a monopoly so your stuck..
     
  17. Uzi2

    Uzi2 NES Member

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    Simple solution to that is learn a trade instead of going to college.
    Every person I know that went to college in my age group of friends were chronically unemployed.....sometimes for extended periods of time, on top of having a mountain of debt once they graduated.

    The several of us that learned a trade were NEVER unemployed and did very well.
     
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  18. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

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    Well yes, but outside of writing it there is no production/distribution cost. Back when I was in school, a lot of the excuse we were given for why textbooks were so damned expensive is, well, they cost a lot to make, etc., and (these were before on-demand publishing/printing) there's a limited market so no economies of scale.

    Honestly, the cost of development of instructional materials should be included in the cost of the course, so for students the PDF should be as free as the bits of which it is composed.

    Post-secondary is increasingly pricing themselves out of the market, and failing to deliver the promised product (an educated, employable graduate). People are turning away, or getting their know-how elsewhere.
     
  19. swatgig

    swatgig NES Member

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    There was a group of students at my law school who would buy one casebook, remove the cover and binding, and scan the book. I wonder if they disclosed that on their bar applications.
     
  20. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

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    Why, in 2019, is there even such as thing as a "casebook" ?? Those things should be online.
     
  21. Bonesinium

    Bonesinium

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    That’s not a solution to text books being a racket.
     
  22. cjmass

    cjmass NES Member

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    Think Pocahontas will donate part of her proceeds from "scalping" students with the price of her book, to some native American charity???
     
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  23. C. Stockwell

    C. Stockwell NES Member

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    *A case book is 800-1600 pages
    *Some cases aren't digitized, like cases that predate 1850
    *There's a monopoly, as I mentioned
    *Law schools are a much smaller market than undergrad colleges
     
  24. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

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    All the more reason not to print it.
    JFC, my dinky-assed town was founded in 1798 (with some records predating that), and somehow found the means to get everything digitized.

    Needs to be busted.
    Even in print, on-demand has done away with much of the economies of scale argument (and digital does away with completely).
     
  25. C. Stockwell

    C. Stockwell NES Member

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    Because of how incestuous law school and the ancillary industries are, I highly doubt the West and Lexis monopoly is going to be busted anytime soon. From pre-JD to retirement, lawyers and law students support the monopoly. Want to perform modern, online legal research and writing? You have two options: WestLaw and Lexis Advance. Know who's pioneering AI legal research? WestLaw mostly. Know who introduced the modern legal citation system? Mr. West of West Publishing.

    West (publisher) - Wikipedia

    Path dependency is a very real thing in legal practice. You're talking about a career field where you have three to four generations of people working together. This isn't Silicon Valley or the 128 corridor. This is a bunch of stodgy, old, path-dependent lawyers and liberals.
     
  26. SpaceCritter

    SpaceCritter NES Member

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    Well, I suppose it's useful to know who's to blame when the time comes. [grin]
     
  27. citoriguy

    citoriguy NES Member

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    I’m far from a Warren fan, but @C Stockwell - the author still doesn’t get to set the price of the textbook. S/he can negotiate royalties though.
     
  28. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    Doesnt matter. Her name helps sell it. She is just as guilty.
     
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  29. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    College books cost very little to make, it is all a brilliant scam.

    First, they get a bunch of minimum wage kids to start pulling data from a lot of sources.

    Then, they put all that data together and make a book.

    Then, they pay someone to put his/her name on it.

    A year later, they re-arrange some of the information and release it as the latest and greatest.
     
  30. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    That's funny, because I know several people on the trades that were unemployed during the recession, and my friends and myself (all corporate workers) werent.

    I know people on trades that almost lost their homes, they were struggling. And these weren't inexperienced people, one of them build half the homes around Plymouth, Halifax, Plympton and Kingston.

    One path is not better than the other. They both have positives and negatives.
     

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