Walther PPK mass compliant?

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Hello,

So, I live in Massachusetts I've been looking to acquire a Walther PPK -- no luck at my local gun stores so I've started scanning GunBroker. The PPK retails at various gun stores I've checked (albeit none of them expect to have any in stock for the foreseeable future), are listed on the 2016-2 approved weapons roster, don't qualify as a assault weapons under the ban (as far as I can tell, and I'm not planning on buying one that has silencer-threading on anything), and are not listed on Walther's website as being restricted in MA. All that said, I've encountered a couple of opinions that have given me pause, and of course the laws are frustratingly vague.

On the approved weapons roster (http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster05-2015.pdf, press control+F and type 'ppk' then hit enter to find it quickly on the list), .380 PPK has two listings, PPK and PPK (blue). Somebody told me that the gun has to be listed EXACTLY, hence a stainless steel PPK would be illegal to buy. The fact that blue PPK's are listed specifically on the roster made me want to clear that up.

Second, someone told me that there are PPK's and "mass-compliant" PPK's, so if I found one on GunBroker there would be no guarantee that it is a PPK legal to acquire in Massachusetts. This came as news to me, and I can't find any info about this, and Walther's website doesn't make a distinction that I can find, but again, with the letter of the law being so vague I figured I'd seek some input.

Third, and most general question -- My understanding is that if the weapon in question (in this a PPK) is on the approved weapon roster, does not meet the criterion to be considered an "assault weapon," is shipped from and to an FFL (obviously with the consent of the receiving FFL), then it's a legal transfer. It doesn't make a difference if the FFL I buy the gun from is out of state, provided that the gun ticks the above-mentioned criterion, or does the seller need to be within Massachusetts regardless of whether the gun is mass-legal?

I apologize if these are stupid question but all my handgun-buying experiences have been purchasing new firearms, never done an FFL transfer, and the law isn't exactly enlightening.

Thanks!
 
Oooh oooh me me!

Compliance, both for EEOPS and the AGs unlisted list, applies only to dealers.
Find someone willing to sell it to you, but it, live happily ever after.
 
And I accidentally posted this under "general" instead of "laws." Perhaps a moderator would be so kind as to correct my error and move this to the "laws" subforum. I apologize.
 
The problem is S&W no longer makes the PPK. So basically you need a dealer that has the balls to buy one from a walther distributor, but they are compliant.

The short answer though is stop worrying about whether it's compliant or not, that's not your problem. Start calling dealers and ask which one will take in a Walther PPK (whatever) on an inbound transfer. I'm guessing you're looking for a .380. Then if/when you get a yes, go on gunbroker, buy the thing and have the dealers trade info and get it that way. Done.

-Mike
 
Third, and most general question -- My understanding is that if the weapon in question (in this a PPK) is on the approved weapon roster, does not meet the criterion to be considered an "assault weapon," is shipped from and to an FFL (obviously with the consent of the receiving FFL), then it's a legal transfer. It doesn't make a difference if the FFL I buy the gun from is out of state, provided that the gun ticks the above-mentioned criterion, or does the seller need to be within Massachusetts regardless of whether the gun is mass-legal?


You are ALMOST all the way there.
The EEOPS listed firearms must be listed exactly by model number, which leads to some REALLY annoying problems (like, different OEM wood grips on the same Ruger MkIII Hunter makes the difference between salable and un-salable.)
The only thing to really understand is that, with the exception of falling with the confines of Assault Weapons Ban, there really are no illegal to possess handguns in Massachusetts. EEOPS and the Attorney General enforce restrictions on licensed dealers, which prevent those dealers from effecting a transfer UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, be it retail sale, private party transfer effected by an FFL, inheritance, anything.


Law of unintended consequences: Your dad in Free America wants to gift you a nice handgun, forget about it. Interstate transfer of handguns is FFL to FFL, as you correctly identify in your OP (by federal law) but if the gun is unlisted a Massachusetts dealer cannot transfer it.

Worse: Your uncle dies and does not have a Will or other document of assignment, which specifically lists you as recipient, but everybody agrees that the guns are to go to you. In the absence of an explicit assignment document, transfers must be from the estate to you via a dealer (in Massachusetts) and the same restrictions apply: No off-list guns for you.
Have a dealer sell them out of state for less than wholesale, sorry about your luck.
 
You are ALMOST all the way there.
The EEOPS listed firearms must be listed exactly by model number, which leads to some REALLY annoying problems (like, different OEM wood grips on the same Ruger MkIII Hunter makes the difference between salable and un-salable.)
The only thing to really understand is that, with the exception of falling with the confines of Assault Weapons Ban, there really are no illegal to possess handguns in Massachusetts. EEOPS and the Attorney General enforce restrictions on licensed dealers, which prevent those dealers from effecting a transfer UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, be it retail sale, private party transfer effected by an FFL, inheritance, anything.


Law of unintended consequences: Your dad in Free America wants to gift you a nice handgun, forget about it. Interstate transfer of handguns is FFL to FFL, as you correctly identify in your OP (by federal law) but if the gun is unlisted a Massachusetts dealer cannot transfer it.

Worse: Your uncle dies and does not have a Will or other document of assignment, which specifically lists you as recipient, but everybody agrees that the guns are to go to you. In the absence of an explicit assignment document, transfers must be from the estate to you via a dealer (in Massachusetts) and the same restrictions apply: No off-list guns for you.
Have a dealer sell them out of state for less than wholesale, sorry about your luck.

Lots of bad info here, so OP, please ignore it!!

------------------------------

Inheritance does NOT have to touch any FFL anywhere at any time and doing so if it WAS to go to a MA resident is an almost certain ticket to "never-never land" for handguns.

Interstate transfer by Fed law does NOT have to go FFL to FFL, that is a "policy" enforced by many FFLs to keep each other in business. Only need ONE FFL at the receiving end by Law, and for handguns that FFL MUST be (Fed Law) in the state of the new owner.

No, handguns do not have to be by "precise" model number unless the mfr was stupid enough to submit it to GCAB that way. So if they submitted it as a Model xyz with purple dinosaur inlay grips, a MA Dealer would be prohibited from transferring the same exact gun with green dinosaur inlay grips. And indeed there are some very stupid mfrs that do submit their guns that way. The smart ones submit it as a PPK, .380ACP and done.

The handgun transfer laws ONLY are a restriction on the dealer and are NOT a restriction on the buyer. If you find something you want at a price agreeable to you, just buy and enjoy it.
 
So if I find a willing dealer (I've talked to a couple that are provisionally agreeable to doing a transfer pending the conditions of a given listing) and do my due diligence to make sure the gun is compliant (again, the PPK in .380 is clearly compliant, I'm just overly anal when it comes to legal questions and new to FFL transfers), the law won't come down on me like a ton of bricks for some obscure reason that I've missed? The compliance issue ultimately rests, in the eyes of the law, with the dealer who handles the transfer? The reason I ask is because a reputable dealer obviously wouldn't do a questionable transfer, and if the dealer is comfortable doing the transfer then I would be completely confident that my assessment of the PPK as Mass. compliant is correct.
 
Have seen plenty of PPK and PPK/S for sale at Mass. gun shows,, that being said, as a long time Walther fan I would not touch the Smith & Wesson versions with a long pole, their quality is terrible with regard to fit and finish and they either work out of the box or will probably never work. The Interarms made ones come the closest to the original German/French versions and without the high price tag. Most of the Interarms guns are stainless but some of the PPK/S came blued, all shipped with 2 mags, a thumbrest and flat based.
 
Not being confrontational, I just want to understand this properly.

Lots of bad info here, so OP, please ignore it!!

------------------------------

Inheritance does NOT have to touch any FFL anywhere at any time and doing so if it WAS to go to a MA resident is an almost certain ticket to "never-never land" for handguns.

Even in the absence of a document of assignment? My understanding was otherwise, based on previous conversations/threads here.

Interstate transfer by Fed law does NOT have to go FFL to FFL, that is a "policy" enforced by many FFLs to keep each other in business. Only need ONE FFL at the receiving end by Law, and for handguns that FFL MUST be (Fed Law) in the state of the new owner.
I stand corrected. FFL shipper is a convention, FFL receiver (to ensure compliance with state laws in state of residence of recipient) is law.
That said, it looks like all the common carriers have restrictions shipping from citizens:
ttp://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm
https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html
http://www.fedex.com/us/freight/rulestariff/prohibited_articles.html

No, handguns do not have to be by "precise" model number unless the mfr was stupid enough to submit it to GCAB that way. So if they submitted it as a Model xyz with purple dinosaur inlay grips, a MA Dealer would be prohibited from transferring the same exact gun with green dinosaur inlay grips. And indeed there are some very stupid mfrs that do submit their guns that way. The smart ones submit it as a PPK, .380ACP and done.
Ruger is the specific manufacturer I'm familiar with, and they were this stupid in the example of MkIII Hunter: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIIHunter/models.html
You can buy model 10118, but not 10160.
http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster05-2015.pdf


The handgun transfer laws ONLY are a restriction on the dealer and are NOT a restriction on the buyer. If you find something you want at a price agreeable to you, just buy and enjoy it.

As has been often repeated here.
 
You're reading way too far into this. As someone who has probably wasted way too much time on research of these issues i can say that with certainty... lol.
 
Not being confrontational, I just want to understand this properly.

Even in the absence of a document of assignment? My understanding was otherwise, based on previous conversations/threads here.

I stand corrected. FFL shipper is a convention, FFL receiver (to ensure compliance with state laws in state of residence of recipient) is law.
That said, it looks like all the common carriers have restrictions shipping from citizens:
ttp://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm
https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html
http://www.fedex.com/us/freight/rulestariff/prohibited_articles.html

Ruger is the specific manufacturer I'm familiar with, and they were this stupid in the example of MkIII Hunter: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIIHunter/models.html
You can buy model 10118, but not 10160.
http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster05-2015.pdf

Inheritance depends on some document or intestate according to decedent's state's laws. That is not something I was discussing because lacking either of these, it isn't an inheritance it is just a normal transfer and normal rules apply.

Fed Law forbids anyone except a mfr or FFL Dealer (not C&R FFL) from shipping handguns thru the USPO. Long guns can be shipped in accordance with Fed Law by the owner thru the USPO.

FedEx and UPS changed their policies to not allow individuals to ship ANY guns except if it is going to/from an FFL. There are ways around this problem and I teach it in my MA Gun Law Seminars.

Ruger's lawyers are a bunch of asses! They even asked GCAB to delete most of their 22s from the approved list because they planned on modifying them. They are hopeless I'm afraid.
 
Ruger's lawyers are a bunch of asses! They even asked GCAB to delete most of their 22s from the approved list because they planned on modifying them. They are hopeless I'm afraid.

Ruger's counsel is the very definition of "going full retard".

-Mike
 
So if I find a willing dealer (I've talked to a couple that are provisionally agreeable to doing a transfer pending the conditions of a given listing)

1) Buy your PPK on NES Classified
2) If Gunbroker is FFL to FFL it might work but if selling FFL forgets to include required paperwork receiving FFL may ship it back and you then have to figure out how to get a refund
3) Buy a Ruger SR9c
 
Four Seasons

Walther VERY RECENTPPK.380 ACP9658BAT$549.95 FACTORY BOX, 2 MAGS, WOOD GRIPS, ORIGINAL GRIPS, UNFIRED
 
Friends don't let friends buy the S&W version of the PPK in .380.

Indeed. I own an Interarms blued version and it is flawless. When I told a dealer that I wanted to buy the S&W version in stainless as an "investment" (also to shoot) he actually refused to sell it to me and explained why!
 
You should consider attending one of my MA Gun Law by and for Non-Lawyers Seminars. See http://2atraining.weebly.com

It will educate you about all these obtuse factors in MA gun laws.

Can't you just post in the classified? I don't think I've ever seen another dealer advertise in the threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I picked up a PPK/S back in 2014. it's a .380. one side has all the walther info on it and the side other says... Walther, Smith & Wesson, Holten, ME USA

So not sure what has changed since 2014. Anyway, I like the gun. I would say the only thing I really don't like about it is there is no manual slide lock/release. You need an empty mag to lock the slide to the rear. Otherwise I think it's a nice gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wA0h7VH_aA
 
Walther PPK/S NIB NBF

I have an Interarms Walther PPK/S new in the box never been fired. The target that's included in the box says it was test fired in 1985.

We could talk if you want.
 
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