Wall with Mexico and Cordless Tools

Knob Creek

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So now what?

"SAN DIEGO — Smuggling gangs in Mexico have repeatedly sawed through new sections of President Trump’s border wall in recent months by using commercially available power tools, opening gaps large enough for people and drug loads to pass through, according to U.S. agents and officials with knowledge of the damage.
The breaches have been made using a popular cordless household tool known as a reciprocating saw that retails at hardware stores for as little as $100. When fitted with specialized blades, the saws can slice through one of the barrier’s steel-and-concrete bollards in minutes, according to the agents, who spoke on the condition of anonymity."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/smugglers-are-sawing-through-new-sections-of-trumps-border-wall/2019/11/01/25bf8ce0-fa72-11e9-ac8c-8eced29ca6ef_story.html
 

Prepper

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Add electronics with automated defense systems. My new software for my cameras can successfully recognize people from other objects (although sometimes it gets confused by a wasp crawling across the lens). It should be easy enough to rig up some kind of automated rifle that fires at the objects detected as being people. With proper warning signs before you reach the dangerous area, of course, and in Espanol... I certainly don't advocate anyone unknowingly becoming victims of such systems.
 

Picton

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It should be easy enough to rig up some kind of automated rifle that fires at the objects detected as being people. With proper warning signs before you reach the dangerous area, of course, and in Espanol... I certainly don't advocate anyone unknowingly becoming victims of such systems.
Sure thing. Robot-operated firearms...

'Cause there's no way THAT system could ever mess up.

We've had this argument ad nauseam already. I still maintain that NO barrier, regardless of how it's made, will be effective unless it's under 24/7 observation by guys who can be trusted not to fall asleep at 0300 while manning a tower in the trackless wastelands outside East Bumphukk, Texas.

I've yet to read about anything that'll change my mind. Obstacles are only obstacles if they're observed AND covered by fire. Otherwise, they're just begging people to figure out how to breach them. And people are smart.
 

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Sure thing. Robot-operated firearms...

'Cause there's no way THAT system could ever mess up.

We've had this argument ad nauseam already. I still maintain that NO barrier, regardless of how it's made, will be effective unless it's under 24/7 observation by guys who can be trusted not to fall asleep at 0300 while manning a tower in the trackless wastelands outside East Bumphukk, Texas.

I've yet to read about anything that'll change my mind. Obstacles are only obstacles if they're observed AND covered by fire. Otherwise, they're just begging people to figure out how to breach them. And people are smart.
Yes, absolutely they should be fully watched by humans. And, I don't want to hear any claims that it is "too difficult" or something... it's only 3000 miles. A guy per mile of cameras should be easy enough. But, humans with advanced technology can make this a lot more effective... I'd prefer the cameras be able to automatically alert on possible humans trying to cross over. IR, motion detection software in the cameras, maybe even vibration sensors in the ground. This is all possible stuff if we have the will. After all, these idiots seriously talk about using technology to sequester carbon from the air and bury it somewhere, an effort that would far exceed anything mankind has ever attempted before. A lousy border wall is trivial by comparison.
 

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Too soon to suggest strafing runs in the no mans land before the barriers?
It sounds fun, but that would be extremely costly and ineffective. If you're near border and hear planes approaching, you have time to run for it. And, the planes can't be everywhere all the time.
 

Kevin_NH

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Sadly, minefields are politically incorrect.

After all, these idiots seriously talk about using technology to sequester carbon from the air and bury it somewhere, an effort that would far exceed anything mankind has ever attempted before. A lousy border wall is trivial by comparison.
Our direction is clear -- we use the sequestered carbon to build the border wall. Problem solved!
 

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Sadly, minefields are politically incorrect.
Yup they are. The two fences could have lasers between them... that might be kind of fun, assuming we have the technology to make lasers powerful enough for that many of them. I guess the illegals could just cover themselves with foil. Hmm. Okay, scratch that idea.
 

Picton

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Yes, absolutely they should be fully watched by humans. And, I don't want to hear any claims that it is "too difficult" or something... it's only 3000 miles. A guy per mile of cameras should be easy enough. But, humans with advanced technology can make this a lot more effective... I'd prefer the cameras be able to automatically alert on possible humans trying to cross over. IR, motion detection software in the cameras, maybe even vibration sensors in the ground. This is all possible stuff if we have the will. After all, these idiots seriously talk about using technology to sequester carbon from the air and bury it somewhere, an effort that would far exceed anything mankind has ever attempted before. A lousy border wall is trivial by comparison.
Again, these all sound like solutions until you realize that El Chapo's buddies aren't about to simply glance at a camera, shrug, and go become janitors or something. The incentive for them to defeat any of our technology starts with B and ends with -illions, so how long will it be before they find some sixteen-year-old hacker who'll worm into all those systems for the price of a few cups of coffee?

I'd say it'll happen within five minutes of the sensors going live, except that I think they're probably already working on it.

As for vibration sensors... granted, my experience with REMBASS is quite a bit ago now, but I remember scads of false positives, battery problems, and other maintenance headaches, plus the whole system was so "ruggedized" that it took a decade to develop, cost tens of thousands per unit, and had a range of only a few meters or so. Over 3,000 trackless miles? It's wishful thinking.

You can do all this. But it'll cost trillions and still not be a 100% solution. So why spend that much?
 

Prepper

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Again, these all sound like solutions until you realize that El Chapo's buddies aren't about to simply glance at a camera, shrug, and go become janitors or something. The incentive for them to defeat any of our technology starts with B and ends with -illions, so how long will it be before they find some sixteen-year-old hacker who'll worm into all those systems for the price of a few cups of coffee?

I'd say it'll happen within five minutes of the sensors going live, except that I think they're probably already working on it.

As for vibration sensors... granted, my experience with REMBASS is quite a bit ago now, but I remember scads of false positives, battery problems, and other maintenance headaches, plus the whole system was so "ruggedized" that it took a decade to develop, cost tens of thousands per unit, and had a range of only a few meters or so. Over 3,000 trackless miles? It's wishful thinking.

You can do all this. But it'll cost trillions and still not be a 100% solution. So why spend that much?
The cameras wouldn't just watch. You would have agents stationed along the border sufficiently distributed that they could get to a place quickly to intercept the illegals. I seriously doubt that they can't make a camera system that isn't reasonably resistant to hacking. It's not as if they need to run the cameras over the internet using IP.

Okay, I don't know anything about vibration sensors... I just heard they are around area 51. We probably don't need them.

Trillions? LOL no. The system doesn't need to be perfect... it just needs to keep most out.

And, it should not be the only tactic used. At the top needs to be removing the incentive to come here. This will make people freak out, but, it must not be possible to get welfare, free school, free medical care, etc. if you're here illegally. And, they need to crack down on companies that hire them illegally. I don't care if someone hires a nanny, but a company employing 300 illegals all somehow using the same SSN should be a red flag. A lot of them will self deport if you give them no reason to be here.

The other thing that can be done is legalize drugs.
 

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Guys with a good arm or catapult can get stuff over the wall. Hell, we can't even control the drug trade in Chicago. Jack.
And drones can easily fly drugs over. I don't really care though.... let the druggies inject drugs into their eyeballs until they OD. I don't like it, but it is their decision.
 
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Just raid every farm, kitchen, construction site and slaughter house on a regular basis. Strike fear into them and imprison every employer who knowingly employs illegal immigrants.
 

Picton

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We're seeing what the dilemma is right here.

Shoot them. Imprison employers. Robot guns. Minefields.

Some of these suggestions are made in jest, some not, but not a one of them is ever going to happen. Why? Lack of will. At the end of the day, doing the things necessary to fully seal a border are incompatible with a free society because they'd cede a scary amount of power to the government, and because it's just flat-out not acceptable to the voters for the USA to stack up the bodies of those desperate enough to hire coyotes and walk through the desert, including the kids.

The wall, unmanned, won't work. So what's next? Anyone who thinks a mere barrier will work absent MASSIVE changes to US drug, immigration quota, welfare, and employment policies is kidding themselves. Or allowing themselves to be used by Trump. Or just not paying attention.
 

headednorth

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We're seeing what the dilemma is right here.

Shoot them. Imprison employers. Robot guns. Minefields.

Some of these suggestions are made in jest, some not, but not a one of them is ever going to happen. Why? Lack of will. At the end of the day, doing the things necessary to fully seal a border are incompatible with a free society because they'd cede a scary amount of power to the government, and because it's just flat-out not acceptable to the voters for the USA to stack up the bodies of those desperate enough to hire coyotes and walk through the desert, including the kids.

The wall, unmanned, won't work. So what's next? Anyone who thinks a mere barrier will work absent MASSIVE changes to US drug, immigration quota, welfare, and employment policies is kidding themselves. Or allowing themselves to be used by Trump. Or just not paying attention.
Not sure why these discussions always devolve into a back and forth of "this ONE thing is the solution" "No, THIS one thing solves everything." Remove the incentives to come here, install a physical barrier to discourage some percentage from making the trip, design it to be difficult enough for the rest to deal with. From what ive seen , it looks like metal tubes. Fill them with concrete with a piece of rebar in the middle. the blade is toast once it hits the concrete.

Make the risks greater than the rewards for everyone involved and youll get a handle on the problem.
 

Prepper

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Not sure why these discussions always devolve into a back and forth of "this ONE thing is the solution" "No, THIS one thing solves everything." Remove the incentives to come here, install a physical barrier to discourage some percentage from making the trip, design it to be difficult enough for the rest to deal with. From what ive seen , it looks like metal tubes. Fill them with concrete with a piece of rebar in the middle. the blade is toast once it hits the concrete.

Make the risks greater than the rewards for everyone involved and youll get a handle on the problem.
Yup, this is what I keep saying. We don't need a perfect solution. Remove the main incentives they have for coming here (yes I know there is zero political will to make that happen, despite how easy it is to do), and that will reduce their desire to try to come here. No welfare. No special treatment by employers. No special treatment when caught by cops while committing crimes... this catch and release of illegals has got to stop. Do all this and many here already will self deport. The wall is just a bonus to slow down those who would still try to get here anyway.

I actually don't care if someone is "here illegally", if that's all it is. Without any further info, all that tells me is that they are physically standing on the other side of an arbitrary line made up by a government. Big whoop. If they are using up our resources without contributing anything back, that's a problem. If the are committing crimes, that's a problem. If they are voting illegally, that's a problem. The elite want the illegals here in order to weaponize them against us. If they are just hanging out at their relative's house in the US and getting fed by the relative, I don't really care.
 
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So now what?

"SAN DIEGO — Smuggling gangs in Mexico have repeatedly sawed through new sections of President Trump’s border wall in recent months by using commercially available power tools, opening gaps large enough for people and drug loads to pass through, according to U.S. agents and officials with knowledge of the damage.
The breaches have been made using a popular cordless household tool known as a reciprocating saw that retails at hardware stores for as little as $100. When fitted with specialized blades, the saws can slice through one of the barrier’s steel-and-concrete bollards in minutes, according to the agents, who spoke on the condition of anonymity."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/smugglers-are-sawing-through-new-sections-of-trumps-border-wall/2019/11/01/25bf8ce0-fa72-11e9-ac8c-8eced29ca6ef_story.html
I was saying this in the last wall thread. Walls don't work. They never have and they never will. People will then post famous walls unironically unaware that the walls were or are failures.

If you cant go over it you go under it. And if you cant go under it you go through it. The only people that a wall will stop are the elderly, pregnant females or other people with physical disabilities.


Imagine if we removed the incentives for the people who wish to enter illegally instead. Hard one, I know.

Not sure why these discussions always devolve into a back and forth of "this ONE thing is the solution" "No, THIS one thing solves everything." Remove the incentives to come here, install a physical barrier to discourage some percentage from making the trip, design it to be difficult enough for the rest to deal with. From what ive seen , it looks like metal tubes. Fill them with concrete with a piece of rebar in the middle. the blade is toast once it hits the concrete.

Make the risks greater than the rewards for everyone involved and youll get a handle on the problem.
Large and or complex wall systems are a waste of money. They are a waste of money because they don't work.
 
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The breaches have been made using a popular cordless household tool known as a reciprocating saw that retails at hardware stores for as little as $100. When fitted with specialized blades, the saws can slice through one of the barrier’s steel-and-concrete bollards in minutes,
Is there anyone else here who's actually done work that involves cutting and or drilling through steel and concrete with the same blade or bit that's not buyin' this or is it just me?
 

Dadstoys

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Is there anyone else here who's actually done work that involves cutting and or drilling through steel and concrete with the same blade or bit that's not buyin' this or is it just me?
Not convinced either.
I've used battery power sawzalls plenty
You would need a chit load of blades , batteries and probably a few saws from burning them up trying to cut something like that.!
Smells a bit like another let's make Trump look bad fairy tale
 

tuna

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Is there anyone else here who's actually done work that involves cutting and or drilling through steel and concrete with the same blade or bit that's not buyin' this or is it just me?
I once had a GSA safe that no one knew the combo to. I got prices of $500 to $1000 to cut the drawer open. When the company came, it was 45 minutes and two blades.

what was funny was the company that said it wasn’t a safe but was a cabinet, and they’d do it for $75. I almost called them just to be a jerk. I told the safe company that and we had a good laugh.

I think this story is about the older wall and is just to make the current one look like a waste of time. Because the plan is to build the wall and fire all the border patrol agents, right?

Oh yeah. If the wall is so useless, why is there a sudden uptick of Mexicans caught coming across from Canada? Thanks to visa-less travel agreement with Mexico and Canada it’s easier, and less guarded (longer border andfewer personnel) than the traditional route.
 

drgrant

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I was saying this in the last wall thread. Walls don't work. They never have and they never will. People will then post famous walls unironically unaware that the walls were or are failures.
Walls work fine if you're willing to kill people trying to cross them. Even then, I don't think they've ever been able to come up with foolproof tech to stop tunneling and that kind
of thing. Usually by the time one of those tunnels gets found shitloads of product and people have already been moved through it (and guns going in the other direction, lol).

-Mike
 

Picton

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Walls work fine if you're willing to kill people trying to cross them. Even then, I don't think they've ever been able to come up with foolproof tech to stop tunneling and that kind
of thing. Usually by the time one of those tunnels gets found shitloads of product and people have already been moved through it (and guns going in the other direction, lol).

-Mike
The East Germans could (and did) shoot to kill, and that border with West Germany was still a sieve. The best they could do was around 330 successful crossings a year during the eighties; it was a lot higher earlier, and bear in mind that was less than a thousand miles of wall, with easy terrain and excellent road access. Constant observation, very expensive, and still quite permeable.

Should have been easy to close off. Ours would be far harder.
 
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