VT vs NH for freedom

[Kevin_NH]

40 gun stores in VT, 100+ in New Hampshire?

Also far less gun shops in VT. I just Googled "Gun Shops in Vermont" and it only turned up 30 in the whole state. But it's likely proportional to population too, NH has 1.3 million people, while VT has only 630k

BATFE publishes the complete list of FFLs by type and state.

Vermont has 372 active FFLs, including 109 where the business name is "NULL". I count maybe 41 "gun stores" (including Orvis)?

New Hampshire has 601 active, including 279 DBA "NULL". I see 224 FFL01's with a business name, +100 look like storefronts, either a gun store or another store that also sells guns (11 WalMarts, 6 Dick's, etc). That's after excluding business names indicating auctioneers, gunsmiths, and the like.

 

[hv55maxx]

this

No real comparison between NH and VT

Taxes are stupid in Vt and they have an entitlement program for anything a leftist could possibly imagine

Burlington has gone full retard on firearms and while the state leg has not gotten around to really enacting gun control its just a matter of time.....leftists will be leftists and they unfortunately control the state

Your only hope in Vt is that the bernie supporters who support cessesion are smart enough to realize they better not ban guns because they might need them

NH is the safer bet by far long term

a few things ive noticed from research so far. VT property tax is very similar to what i pay now in my town here in mass. except it would be pretty much land only so that keeps it even lower. i've also noticed that while very "hippie-ish" the general attitude is you do your thing and ill do mine and we leave each other alone. they just passed suppressor legislation last year, so it sounds like Burlington's been defanged if they are planning on ruling the state

im sure wayyyyyy up north NH is awesome, but itll also be 4+ hrs away. not exactly ideal for me to enjoy it regularly. large part of this is a quick escape from loonieville. 4+hrs isnt exactly quick. especially with two kids under 2. Im 30, so i have a lot or worklife left if i want to remain fortunate enough to afford this stuff. so ideally, its extremely southern NH (~1hr drive) or extremely southern VT (~20mins). i guess ive been leaning towards VT the whole time but just want to know from anyone with experience any drawbacks im overlooking or missed.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

a few things ive noticed from research so far. VT property tax is very similar to what i pay now in my town here in mass. except it would be pretty much land only so that keeps it even lower. i've also noticed that while very "hippie-ish" the general attitude is you do your thing and ill do mine and we leave each other alone. they just passed suppressor legislation last year, so it sounds like Burlington's been defanged if they are planning on ruling the state

im sure wayyyyyy up north NH is awesome, but itll also be 4+ hrs away. not exactly ideal for me to enjoy it regularly. large part of this is a quick escape from loonieville. 4+hrs isnt exactly quick. especially with two kids under 2. Im 30, so i have a lot or worklife left if i want to remain fortunate enough to afford this stuff. so ideally, its extremely southern NH (~1hr drive) or extremely southern VT (~20mins). i guess ive been leaning towards VT the whole time but just want to know from anyone with experience any drawbacks im overlooking or missed.

If your mind is made up on VT, don't let anyone talk you out of it. Buy it and enjoy it.

However, there are plenty of areas in Southern to mid NH once you get off the major roads that are more then capable of providing what you are looking for. You just need to get away from the commuter towns.

 

[tk421991]

Kids? Have you considered an investment in copious amounts of benedril for road trips?

You're in western mass so I totally understand now.

You may find what you want in terms of accessibility in areas north of keene

Vt is solidly controlled by the left at this point in time and its only a matter of time before they do to RKBA what they have done to taxes and the voluminious welfare state/FSA

I'd hate to tell you but NH has plenty of people on welfare, especially up north. And 99% of the moonbats in NH that I've met were native-born. Laconia, Berlin, etc.

 

[Gibbs]

...tax structure also quite different.

Is my memory correct? When we were looking for a new house in VT, the buyer pays the (transfer) tax on the sale, where the seller pays it in MA ..?

(Which meant we'd have been double taxed, so we did not buy in VT.)

 

[Mr.E]

I looked in VT for 3 years, and couldn't find the rural retreat type of house with acreage I wanted that didn't have something that didn't have a major objection. I was looking within a 2 hour drive of metrowest, Wardsboro/Stratton/Newfane/Brookline, etc areas. One of the usual objections was property taxes. The idea of spending 6-12k on taxes was brutal when you added in carrying costs, and it made it a non-starter.

In NH (White Mountains, Plymouth area), I found a house that was on 125 acres and in the right town. With current use, my taxes are 3300/year and have been stable or gone down (very) slightly over a 4 year period. I could literally walk away from my job in Ma, be a greeter @ Wallyworld, and keep that house.

As far as gun freedom, I shoot my AR off my front porch at a steel target, or my barrett up my 1100 foot driveway towards the ridge.

Literally

do you move the cars first...

 

[OldeBD]

If I'm not mistaken Stamford residents pay a crap load of property taxes because kids are bussed across the border for school in MA. I know they have an elementary school but not sure what grade it goes up to.

Stay away from Pownal and Bennington, reports of that PFOA crap in the ground water. Personally I love the Wilmington/Dover area, but again taxes can be a bit high.

 

[Gibbs]

If I'm not mistaken Stamford residents pay a crap load of property taxes because kids are bussed across the border for school in MA. I know they have an elementary school but not sure what grade it goes up to.

Grade 8.

Stay away from Pownal and Bennington, reports of that PFOA crap in the ground water.

Yeah.

 

[KBCraig]

I'd hate to tell you but NH has plenty of people on welfare, especially up north. And 99% of the moonbats in NH that I've met were native-born. Laconia, Berlin, etc.

Yes, but the really dangerous moonbats in the legislature are transplants.

Is my memory correct? When we were looking for a new house in VT, the buyer pays the (transfer) tax on the sale, where the seller pays it in MA ..?

Like every other tax, the buyer always pays. It doesn't matter who writes the check.

 

[M1911]

There's no comparison between the welfare state that exists in Vt and NH.....the size and scope of redistribution of earnings is stunning There are moonbats everywhere......doesnt matter if they are home grown stupid or blow ins from somewhere else Southern Vt and Champlain Valley are LOADED with trustafarian losers from Ct, NY, Mass and elsewhere..... Bottom line is that the NH legislature is still solidly NOT dem....... Vt is far far left and its only a matter of time before they jack the taxes further and go after firearms......statists are going to be statist.....

Percentage on food stamps:

VT: 85,000 / 626,000 = 13.6%

NH 107,000 / 1.3 M = 8.2%

state and local welfare spending:

VT: 600,000,000 / 626,000 = $1000 per person

NH: 900,000,000 / 1.3M = $700 per person

 

[tk421991]

There's no comparison between the welfare state that exists in Vt and NH.....the size and scope of redistribution of earnings is stunning

There are moonbats everywhere......doesnt matter if they are home grown stupid or blow ins from somewhere else

Southern Vt and Champlain Valley are LOADED with trustafarian losers from Ct, NY, Mass and elsewhere.....

Bottom line is that the NH legislature is still solidly NOT dem.......

Vt is far far left and its only a matter of time before they jack the taxes further and go after firearms......statists are going to be statist.....

See 1911's post. The difference between the percent on food stamps between NH and VT is 5% and $300 per person. That's not a huge difference.

I think it would be more likely that Free Staters would be arrested or at least "under observation" in NH than for Vermont to literally collapse. If Vermont had versions of Nashua, Manchester and Portsmouth, they'd be able to close the gap with NH. But Vermont simply can't because of geography and history.

 

[tk421991]

Yes, but the really dangerous moonbats in the legislature are transplants.




Like every other tax, the buyer always pays. It doesn't matter who writes the check.

Moonbat politicians need Moonbat voters. Simple math - you can't win a political seat unless you have more people voting for you than the other guy.

 

[design]

ex girlfriend is in shaftsbury

Some days, I think that town is next to Concord NH

 

[Monadnock]

See 1911's post. The difference between the percent on food stamps between NH and VT is 5% and $300 per person. That's not a huge difference.

I think it would be more likely that Free Staters would be arrested or at least "under observation" in NH than for Vermont to literally collapse. If Vermont had versions of Nashua, Manchester and Portsmouth, they'd be able to close the gap with NH. But Vermont simply can't because of geography and history.

I think you need to recheck you math

http://cis.org/california-education

Look at the various charts and see where NH and Vt and other states rank

NH's per capita spending on entitlements and "Redistribution" is far less than Vt

Vermont #5
New Hampshire #49

from above link (jpk) findings from a California study from the Center for Immigration Studies.

Note: Post is from summer 2010, data collected from 2007-2009

 

[calsdad]

Vermont #5
New Hampshire #49

from above link (jpk) findings from a California study from the Center for Immigration Studies.

Note: Post is from summer 2010, data collected from 2007-2009

What you posted is a more important statistic than the amount of money that gets spent.

Because it indicates people's attitudes to being ok with a massive welfare system.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Which goes to my other point which is that states that have lucrative entitlement programs ATTRACT more people inclined to use these programs

NH offers considerably less and as such attracts fewer "moths"

Anyone want to take a stab at how it relates to NH also having a lower unemployment rate than other NE states?

http://www.dlt.ri.gov/lmi/laus/us/neadj.htm

From I hear on the radio in the morning lately, NH actually has more jobs then workers. The job fairs are supposedly packed with employers looking for qualified workers.

 

[noddaduma]

I don't know how jobs in general are doing in NH, but the defense industry up here is doing well. I thought it was just us but it seems all the big companies have work. GD, ESA, BAE, L3, etc., and that means more work that trickles down to local subs too.

 

[tk421991]

From I hear on the radio in the morning lately, NH actually has more jobs then workers. The job fairs are supposedly packed with employers looking for qualified workers.

Which goes to my other point which is that states that have lucrative entitlement programs ATTRACT more people inclined to use these programs

NH offers considerably less and as such attracts fewer "moths"

Anyone want to take a stab at how it relates to NH also having a lower unemployment rate than other NE states?

http://www.dlt.ri.gov/lmi/laus/us/neadj.htm

Still doesn't address the problem with NH and Vermont I mentioned earlier - lack of opportunities beyond the three major cities. Both sides, left and right, just think Jobs! = Good!. But both Vermont and NH lead the nation in underemployment.

http://www.americashealthrankings.org/NH/Underemployed

http://www.unh.edu/news/releases/2012/nov/lw13carsey.cfm

It's an easily observable fact. I'm part of the College of Business Admin at my college. Prospective employers will reach out to COBA and COBA posts flyers about post-graduation employment. They're recruiting people with 4-year college degrees to accept work for $30,000 to $40,000 per year and to think that's a great salary. I made more than that when I worked full time before I moved to NH as a title searcher. I could've done that with a high school diploma. People easily graduate my college with $100,000+ in debt if they're out of state. The expected bill for an in-state NH resident at my college is roughly $23,180. The most someone is going to be capable of borrowing is roughly $5500 per semester, so $11,000 per year. That's a $44,000 debt by graduation assuming they're in and out in exactly 4 years. Not to mention out of pocket costs because student loans don't cover the entire bill.

Go to Laconia. Go to Berlin. Go anywhere north of Concord or bordering Vermont, with the exception of the immediate area near Dartmouth College. Drug addicts, crappy employment prospects and no chance in the near future of improvement.

I can either read what you people post about how glorious job opportunities are in New Hampshire or I can trust my own eyes and observations. Guess which one I'm going to trust.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

I can either read what you people post about how glorious job opportunities are in New Hampshire or I can trust my own eyes and observations. Guess which one I'm going to trust.

Do what ever you want man. I just related to a post based on something that was reported on a news program. Besides all of that, this thread was about the OP finding a camp to enjoy with his family. I doubt very much that he cares about employment, welfare, or what you have seen in your job searches, if he is looking for a spot in the woods to pretend to hunt deer in the fall.

 

[tk421991]

Do what ever you want man. I just related to a post based on something that was reported on a news program. Besides all of that, this thread was about the OP finding a camp to enjoy with his family. I doubt very much that he cares about employment, welfare, or what you have seen in your job searches, if he is looking for a spot in the woods to pretend to hunt deer in the fall.

People need to go see these places by themselves. Do their own research and make their own conclusions. I still think it's extremely important to consider employment if someone has kids 0-18 because eventually, they'll need to go through all this themselves.

If all someone wants is empty acreage to shoot on and to have some sort of "vacation" property, I'd just say buy up land in unincorporated parts of Maine. That's how you're going to get true freedom - no town ordinances, lower taxes because there are no "social services", nothing.

 

[carbuncle]

I've spent a lot of time in both states, I chose New Hampshire to live in when we moved Back East from Washington State. More low-key, more my kind of people, based on my blue-collar upbringing on the Cape.

Now that I am a white collar keyboard jockey, though, I get paid at least 35% more working in MA than in comparable jobs in NH (if there were any, they are few and far between in my line of work).

 

[ChevyGuy91]

People need to go see these places by themselves. Do their own research and make their own conclusions. I still think it's extremely important to consider employment if someone has kids 0-18 because eventually, they'll need to go through all this themselves.

If all someone wants is empty acreage to shoot on and to have some sort of "vacation" property, I'd just say buy up land in unincorporated parts of Maine. That's how you're going to get true freedom - no town ordinances, lower taxes because there are no "social services", nothing.

And still out side of his request perimeters. He lives near VT, and wants something close. He was considering NH because it may be more "free". An unincorporated part of ME is no where near what he is looking for.

 

[JayMcB]

Do what ever you want man. I just related to a post based on something that was reported on a news program. Besides all of that, this thread was about the OP finding a camp to enjoy with his family. I doubt very much that he cares about employment, welfare, or what you have seen in your job searches, if he is looking for a spot in the woods to pretend to hunt deer in the fall.

The larger picture applies. If he buys in a town filled with welfare recipients, addicts and junkies, he's going to have to potentially deal with a higher probability of petty theft from the FSA, including possible stored food, firearms, fuel, etc.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

The larger picture applies. If he buys in a town filled with welfare recipients, addicts and junkies, he's going to have to potentially deal with a higher probability of petty theft from the FSA, including possible stored food, firearms, fuel, etc.

This is 2016, there is always a high probability of your shit getting stolen, regardless of where you have your camp.

 

[Bonesinium]

IAnd 99% of the moonbats in NH that I've met were native-born. Laconia, Berlin, etc.

Yes, but the really dangerous moonbats in the legislature are transplants.

Just remember, Maura Healey is from NH. So sure, she is a dangerous "transplant", but in reverse...

I have gotten jacked up for concealed carrying on campus grounds.

What do you mean you got "jacked up"?

 

[Kevin_NH]

Already +5K Free State affiliated folk in NH, reinforcements arriving daily.

I think it would be more likely that Free Staters would be arrested or at least "under observation" in NH than for Vermont to literally collapse. If Vermont had versions of Nashua, Manchester and Portsmouth, they'd be able to close the gap with NH. But Vermont simply can't because of geography and history.

That's a rather extreme situation to plan for. I'd rather be in New Hampshire where I can blend in with thousands of Free Staters than in Vermont where I'd stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[strangenh]

The difference between a 13.6% food stamp rate and an 8.2% rate is 60%, not 5%. Yes 13-8=5. But to say the "difference is 5%" misstates the difference in a measurement system where the scale is limited 0-100.

I.e., from 8.2% NH -> 13.6% VT, per capita, VT has 60% more of the populace on food stamps. By that measure, an average Vemonter is 60% more likely to be on food stamps than an average Granite Stater. That's a very significant difference.

 

[tk421991]

Just remember, Maura Healey is from NH. So sure, she is a dangerous "transplant", but in reverse...

What do you mean you got "jacked up"?

Pulled out of class, cuffed and disarmed.

- - - Updated - - -

That's a rather extreme situation to plan for. I'd rather be in New Hampshire where I can blend in with thousands of Free Staters than in Vermont where I'd stick out like a sore thumb.

It's rather easy to pick out 2000 out of a million and a half.

 

[PatMcD]

The difference between a 13.6% food stamp rate and an 8.2% rate is 60%, not 5%. Yes 13-8=5. But to say the "difference is 5%" misstates the difference in a measurement system where the scale is limited 0-100.

I.e., from 8.2% NH -> 13.6% VT, per capita, VT has 60% more of the populace on food stamps. By that measure, an average Vemonter is 60% more likely to be on food stamps than an average Granite Stater. That's a very significant difference.

Yea, percentages don't work that way. The average vermont is not 60% more likely to be on welfare.

 

[strangenh]

Yea, percentages don't work that way. The average vermont is not 60% more likely to be on welfare.

It was put that way (as a comparative percentage on a rate percentage), rather than "1.6 times the rate" to emphasize how misleading playing it down with the "difference is 5%" is. VT has 1.6 times the food stamp rate of NH. That is a significant and real difference.