Violent Crime in Chicago Megathread

mikeyp

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Gun control advocates warned that high-crime areas, like Chicago, would only see more violence if residents were allowed to carry guns in public.
Is it considered "violence" when a good guy stops a bad guy?
 

Paul455

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Correct.

Criminals would rather go after unarmed targets.

The same reason why predators always pick out the weak, injured or sick for prey.
 

strangenh

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Yeah, they only just started issuing the first licenses the last day of February. I think we have to chalk this one up to old man Winter. Let's see how it shapes up for 2014. If it goes up this quarter, you know they will blame the licenses. Fact is, when the murder rate is mostly the result of criminal-on-criminal violence, there isn't much correlation with legal ownership/carry. The correlation comes long before, when the criminal element establishes itself in a low-resistance city. It'll take a good while to correct. I bet the general violence rate starts to go down tho.
 
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Even so, correlation does not show causation. I think there is sufficient evidence that concealed carry does not increase crime, and logic would dictate it could deter it, or at least move it (stakes may be higher, but a thief still wants/"needs" what they intend to steal, a rapist will still rape, etc). Regardless, it should be a constitutional issue, open and shut. A free society comes with some minor ammount of danger... deal with it, we don't all want to live in padded jail cells our entire lives.

Mike
 

Bison

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Yeah, they only just started issuing the first licenses the last day of February.
Do you think criminals pay that much attention? All they grasp is concealed carry is now legal. I am sure they did not circle March 1 and say I have to stop being a criminal in March. I think it is much more likely that the publicity led to second thoughts. Now, armed citizens defending themselves will lead to even more dramatic changes in behavior in IL.
 

bfm

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Even so, correlation does not show causation. I think there is sufficient evidence that concealed carry does not increase crime, and logic would dictate it could deter it, or at least move it (stakes may be higher, but a thief still wants/"needs" what they intend to steal, a rapist will still rape, etc). Regardless, it should be a constitutional issue, open and shut. A free society comes with some minor ammount of danger... deal with it, we don't all want to live in padded jail cells our entire lives.

Mike
Agree 100% This is however a good "gotcha" for all the anti 2A people who say that more guns will equal more crime.
 

strangenh

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Do you think criminals pay that much attention? All they grasp is concealed carry is now legal. I am sure they did not circle March 1 and say I have to stop being a criminal in March. I think it is much more likely that the publicity led to second thoughts. Now, armed citizens defending themselves will lead to even more dramatic changes in behavior in IL.
Criminals who are murdering other criminals aren't paying any attention to CC in Illinois. And they won't. They already figure their targets are armed. Who do you think is the majority of who's getting murdered in Chicago? People with clean records who are likely to apply to the state for a FOID, take 16 hours of classes, pass a test, apply to the state for their CC license, then wait to carry concealed?

The stat is the MURDER rate, not the overall violent crime rate. The latter will fall eventually. The former has nothing in the short term to do with CC.
 

chindogg

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Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy called the drop in crime a “trend.” He attributed the drop to the “talent level of individuals” on the police force, “intelligent policing strategies” and other programs. He did not mention the concealed carry law. See it was all about law enforcement. [puke]
 

Zappa

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Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy called the drop in crime a “trend.” He attributed the drop to the “talent level of individuals” on the police force, “intelligent policing strategies” and other programs. He did not mention the concealed carry law. See it was all about law enforcement. [puke]
As EnglishBob said in post #7, it was more likely due to the unusually cold weather, but in this case it doesn't fit their narrative.
However, they have no problem blaming the same cold weather for the sluggish economy. [rolleyes]
 

mikeyp

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As EnglishBob said in post #7, it was more likely due to the unusually cold weather, but in this case it doesn't fit their narrative.
However, they have no problem blaming the same cold weather for the sluggish economy. [rolleyes]
You know if the rate had gone up they'd be blaming the gun laws
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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Is it considered "violence" when a good guy stops a bad guy?
If the good guy is white, and the bad guy isnt, then it is violence, racism, and the black guy was turning his life around.
If the good guy is black and the bad guy is white: a brother stopped a white racist. Justified.
Black vs black: it isnt news.
latino vs latino: it isnt news.
white vs latino: racist white man
 

Garys

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Cops: No charges for man with concealed carry permit who fired at armed male

A 53-year-old South Austin man with a valid concealed carry permit was able to shoot at two men who tried to accost him outside of his home early this morning.

The incident happened about 2:40 a.m. on the 5400 block of West Van Buren Street, said Chicago Police Department News Affairs Officer Michael Sullivan.

The man was walking from his garage to the front of his home when two males in hoodies appeared in a gangway between his home and the neighbor's home, Sullivan said.

One of the two men pulled a handgun from his waistband and pointed at the man who took out his own gun and managed to fire several times at the males, Sullivan said.
It's a single data point, but it would seem that people are carrying, they are using their firearms for self defense, they are NOT getting arrested by the police, and the criminals don't seem to like it when their intended victims fight back.

Maybe they are on to something there in Chicago.
 

RG617

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As EnglishBob said in post #7, it was more likely due to the unusually cold weather, but in this case it doesn't fit their narrative.
However, they have no problem blaming the same cold weather for the sluggish economy. [rolleyes]
QFT. Considering the gang issues in that city, there may also have been a squabble between two camps that has coincidentally gone quiet at the right time. Let's see how it plays out in the summer weather, when everyone is outdoors, tempers are shorter due to being hot & miserable, and more citizens are carrying. My guess is it lower but still up there until the shitbags learn that some of the regular folk aren't the easy prey the used to be. There's still going to be the violence criminals do on each other, and that's not going anywhere simply due to CC permits.

Cops: No charges for man with concealed carry permit who fired at armed male



It's a single data point, but it would seem that people are carrying, they are using their firearms for self defense, they are NOT getting arrested by the police, and the criminals don't seem to like it when their intended victims fight back.

Maybe they are on to something there in Chicago.
I have a feeling that we'll be seeing more stories like this, and I'm going to enjoy every one of them. I'll enjoy them even more when they end with the Average Joe going home to wife & kids and the "good guy who simply hung with the wrong crowd" (over the span of fifteen years and multiple convictions, of course) and his some of his friends ending up in the Irish sports pages.
 
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Zappa

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Zappa

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The truth comes out.

Here's the reason crime is down, they took a page from the UK playbook and under report the actual numbers:


Inspector General: Chicago police underreported aggravated assaults, batteries in 2012

Chicago police did not report about a quarter of the aggravated assault and aggravated battery victims in its crime statistics in 2012, an audit by the city's top watchdog found.

The department failed to follow state guidelines by counting each aggravated assault or battery as one incident, not each victim as it should have, leading to the underreporting because of all the incidents that involved multiple victims, according to the inspector general's office.

The department said it has reported aggravated assaults and aggravated batteries in this way for many years, meaning Chicago's statistics on these crimes — including nonfatal shootings — have long gone underreported to the Illinois State Police and FBI.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-report-chicago-police-undercounted-shooting-victims-in-2012-20140407,0,4268508.story
 
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It was frickin' COLD all winter long in Chicago. Like, record-breaking cold. Thugs weren't exactly roaming the streets shooting each other.

THERE is your reason for fewer shootings. Nice to think that a few licensed concealed carriers could make a difference, but I've gotta believe the winter weather had more to do with it. Let's see what happens during the spring and summer.
 
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