Valley Sports in Easthampton, Closing Rumors......??????

[DavidC77]

I stoped in today and talked with Tim. It is from a form from when he 1st opened up about 8 years ago or so, he didn't come out and say what it was but it sounded like something was wrong on the form to maybe a form missing. Enough said there!

I asked him about fighting it with the NRA or GOAL and he told me that the ATF was more or less parked in his shop for the last two to three months going over his paper work, taking photo's of his shop and his invortory and by that people that were in and out of his shop. Yes us, Joe and Jane Q Public. He also said that they told him that he would have to fight to his last penny and if he won that the ATF would "Be Watching Him Like A Hawk, Day In And Out, Disrupting His Daily Business".

He just doesn't have the money (who would) to fight this and decided it was time to close. He also told me they just did the same thing in CT to one other shop and that they are going after (I think it was this name) Hoffman's in CT. He said it was a big gun store in CT, as I said I think he said Hoffman's. They are doing the same thing there, camping out at the store, going through all there records also.

As he said Obama can't take the chance with a election coming up to push a gun bill through and his way of getting the guns out of our hands is to close all the gun stores that sell the guns.

This sucks, Tim is one heck of a guy and treated people right, come on people, wake up and vote these gun haters out of office when we get the chance.

I am pi$$ed, it is not right that these elected people can do this and get away with it !!!!!

.

 

[NFAVT]

The situation at Valley is indeed sad. Tim did tell me the same story I am hearing elsewhere, and it sucks. There is the possibilty that the ATF simply DID try to blow smoke by him and give him the 1 hour edict, just to force his hand. I know many other dealers all over the country, and when their audits have turned up errors, they were given an administrative hearing to present a plan of correction, threats of fines, etc. but I have never heard the 1 hour make up your mind thing. Of course, THAT is one of the problems with the BATF. Their agents have ALOT of leeway, and some are rogue and make their own rules. To challenge them risks getting even MORE crap rained down upon you, even if they are wrong. They simply are RIGHT, until you and your lawyer prove them wrong. What REALLY sucks, is if you contract a lawyer to defend you, you actually are paying for BOTH sides of the legal bill,.....your lawyers through the fees and the BATF through your taxes. When we got our Class III in VT, the agent that interviewed us was quite affable. He actually answered alot of my questions and told me that somewhere along the line we may encounter an agent that is a real p***k and to call him if we ever needed help. All I know is that even at our shop in MA, we watch the paperwork like our lives depend on it, because it DOES, as far as the ATF is concerned. Even minor mistakes have no place when dealing with 4473's and NICS checks. There can be no margin of error, as Tim can attest to. As far as consignments are concerned, if a consignor wants his/her gun back, a 4473 and NICS check must be completed, exactly as if that person was buying the gun, even if they decided 1 hour after the gun was entered into your A&D book that they don't want to consign it. As far as repairs are concerned, they have to be entered into a bound repair record book, but do NOT require 4473 or NICS to return to the owner. All guns coming into a shop for sale, consignment or repair MUST be entered into the respective bound book within 24 hours.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Wow, it's horrifying the amount of crap gun shops need to put up with. I will no longer begrudge the $30 or so if I ever want an FFL.

The whole fact that the federal government has this much power is also horrifying. I also lump the DEA into that too.

 

[GSG]

Wow, it's horrifying the amount of crap gun shops need to put up with. I will no longer begrudge the $30 or so if I ever want an FFL.

What do you mean $30?

 

[drgrant]

What do you mean $30?

I think he's talking about the transfer fee.

-Mike

 

[hampshire gazette]

Hello,

I am looking for someone in the Easthampton area who done any gun-related business at Valley Sports Center and would like to share any thoughts for the record about the store and its closing for a story our newspaper (The Daily Hampshire Gazette) will be publishing soon.

I can be reached at 413 527-4000. No extension just ask for me. My name is Matt Pilon.

Thanks for your time

 

[MrsWildweasel]

Hello,

I am looking for someone in the Easthampton area who done any gun-related business at Valley Sports Center and would like to share any thoughts for the record about the store and its closing for a story our newspaper (The Daily Hampshire Gazette) will be publishing soon.

I can be reached at 413 527-4000. No extension just ask for me. My name is Matt Pilon.

Thanks for your time

Ummm knowing your paper I am sure it will be biased, and frankly you should be contacting Tim at Valley Sport.

 

[Admin]

Hello,

I am looking for someone in the Easthampton area who done any gun-related business at Valley Sports Center and would like to share any thoughts for the record about the store and its closing for a story our newspaper (The Daily Hampshire Gazette) will be publishing soon.

I can be reached at 413 527-4000. No extension just ask for me. My name is Matt Pilon.

Thanks for your time

Due dilligence and fact finding, call the store's owner.

 

[hampshire gazette]

I already have. thanks for your concern

 

[oneswithfunes]

Hello,

I am looking for someone in the Easthampton area who done any gun-related business at Valley Sports Center and would like to share any thoughts for the record about the store and its closing for a story our newspaper (The Daily Hampshire Gazette) will be publishing soon.

I can be reached at 413 527-4000. No extension just ask for me. My name is Matt Pilon.

Thanks for your time

To bad someone like Charles (senior) is not still around. I believe the Gazette is the oldest paper still in operation in the country. I seem to remember that the first issue had a story about Shays' Rebellion. Kinda ironic.

 

[MrsWildweasel]

To bad someone like Charles (senior) is not still around. I believe the Gazette is the oldest paper still in operation in the country. I seem to remember that the first issue had a story about Shays' Rebellion. Kinda ironic.

And how they have gone down hill, even in the 20+ years I have lived here.

 

[oneswithfunes]

And how they have gone down hill, even in the 20+ years I have lived here.

I have a soft spot for the Gazette. Alas you are right.

 

[MrsWildweasel]

I have a soft spot for the Gazette. Alas you are right.

They were some what decent when hubby and I were overseas. We used to get them then, we got them a few times when we were back here stateside, and have from that point on watch them go down hill.

 

[DavidC77]

Hello,

I am looking for someone in the Easthampton area who done any gun-related business at Valley Sports Center and would like to share any thoughts for the record about the store and its closing for a story our newspaper (The Daily Hampshire Gazette) will be publishing soon.

I can be reached at 413 527-4000. No extension just ask for me. My name is Matt Pilon.

Thanks for your time

HI Matt

I will put it straight to you, if I thought that the Gazette was worth my time I would talk to you, but I have not seen anything in years from the Gazette worth anything. From my days as a LEO when you guys wouldn't even spend the time to go to a station to check on the news, yes I would get a phone call from your paper in the morning asking if there was any "good news" to report on, that to me is no news and no one that cares to report the news.

When that paper decides to become a real news outlet I may buy one.

DavidC77

 

[pupchow]

I've been going to Valley Sport Center since I was a kid. I stopped by yesterday to see if I could find something to purchase in an effort to help Tim out, and to offer my thanks for running a shop a sportsman felt welcome in. I'm not sure where I'll be bringing my business from now on.

 

[NFAVT]

The very least that any of us should take away from this is the fact that our government is trying mightily to put an end to gun dealers. And, to those of us who are dealers, we should make VERY sure that we have no problems in our paperwork. Our shop has grown 20 fold since I inherited it 5 years ago, and I take EXTREME measures to make sure the increased amount of paperwork is not resulting in an increased number of errors. Tim's absence will be highly noticed in his area. We can only hope that those of us in the surrounding area can pick up the slack and fight the good fight in his memory. His shop and his expertise and customer service will be missed.

 

[Hawgleg44]

Unrelated to this event, but I'll post it anyway, since it has to do with the ATF going to great measures to shut down dealers.

My sister-in-law's boyfriend is an attorney in Maine who represented a licensed dealer who the ATF charged with making straw sales. Yes, he probably should have used better judgement in this case, but here it is anyway.

The ATF is using two agents, one white female and one black male to enter gunshops and purchase firearms. At first, the woman says she is interested in purchasing her first handgun and her "friend" is there to help her choose one. Her "friend" makes it clear the he is from NYC and cannot purchase one there. He helps her choose something which most would feel is appropriate, and the sale is made. Then, they stop in again. This time, she wants to purchase another handgun, and chooses something a little larger, but doesn't quite have enough money, so her "friend" loans her a little. Next time, she purchases another, but she doesn't have any money with her, and her "friend" pays for it for her. Then, she's in there buying something too large for a small female beginner, like a .44 mag, and her "friend" pays for it for her.

After that, the arrest is made. The FFL holder in this case was looking at 15 years, but it was plea bargained down to 18 months.

A co-worker of mine from VT just got his FFL in this week. During his inspection, the ATF agent warned him about this white female/black male team going around to gunshops and told him to be extremely careful and not to do anything he felt was even a little "off". The agent gave him his card and told him to call him anytime with any questions.

They are out there, making life miserable for dealers. From what I've been told by dealer friends of mine, 99% of the agents out there are honest and helpful, but there are some that are just looking to screw you. Maybe they feel that's an easy way to get a promotion. Whatever the reason, they are out there.

 

[GSG]

The ATF is using two agents, one white female and one black male to enter gunshops and purchase firearms. At first, the woman says she is interested in purchasing her first handgun and her "friend" is there to help her choose one. Her "friend" makes it clear the he is from NYC and cannot purchase one there. He helps her choose something which most would feel is appropriate, and the sale is made. Then, they stop in again. This time, she wants to purchase another handgun, and chooses something a little larger, but doesn't quite have enough money, so her "friend" loans her a little. Next time, she purchases another, but she doesn't have any money with her, and her "friend" pays for it for her. Then, she's in there buying something too large for a small female beginner, like a .44 mag, and her "friend" pays for it for her.

Maybe ATF has shot with different small-sized female beginner shooters than I have. Some can barely handle a .25, others can handle any caliber just fine.

Obviously they lay it on thick enough to make it obvious that something isn't right with the situation, but I wonder if selling a gun to a white woman with a black "friend" is supposed to set off more red flags than if she was there with a white guy.

 

[Half Cocked]

we're not being told the whole story.

This

 

[Half Cocked]

I find this "make a decision in an hour" thing to be a little odd, even out of character for them.

Yup...... don't see it happening

 

[Half Cocked]

since it has to do with the ATF going to great measures to shut down dealers.

Do you have any evidence of this? I work in an office with ATF and have never heard of any such thing. As a matter of fact I have seen them go out of their way for the dealers in my area.

 

[NFAVT]

Actually, I have talked to an agent that is well known to me and has been very helpful. He told me there is an undercurrent in the agency that seems to march to a different tune, if you will, and they are to be watched out for. Either way, the shutting down of Valley is a sad thing, and at least on the surface, appears unjustified, totally. As for myself, I have also had nothing but good experiences with the BATFE. When my Dad left me the shop in MA, I had no idea what to do to get all of the licensing sorted out. EVERY agent I talked to was extremely helpful and I never had a problem, and again when we relocated to our new shop, they were totally helpful. When I got my 07 FFL/SOT in VT, I also had excellent experiences. I have another friend that had an audit, and they said it was like having a root canal done for 24/7 for 2 months. I guess it all boils down to the agent you have, as some go to extremes, and also how YOU present yourself and the attitude that YOU take. Oh well, either way, Tim will be missed.

 

[NFAVT]

As stated in the last post, I have had nothing but good experiences with every agent I have had contact with. Several come into my shop to do traces, several calls for traces, which we answered immediately, many inquiries about multiple sales that we always handled quickly, and just had no problems so far at all. When I got my VT FFL, the agent was absolutely, hands down, the best there could be as he was totally accomodating and helped me at every step of the way. I guess it does boil down to the actual circumstances surrounding WHY the agents are at your shop.

 

[KBCraig]

ATF is a multi-faceted organization, and one person's anecdotal experience isn't data. And I direct that mostly at those who believe "That couldn't have happened, because I've had good experiences with ATF."

ATF --more properly known as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives-- obviously covers a wide territory. Even within the Firearms division, agents are broken down into Licensing (mostly very good and helpful folks), Compliance (not quite as good, sometimes helpful), and Enforcement (your worst nightmare, don't speak to them without seeing a warrant and your own lawyer). On, and there's the Technical Branch, who seem to make things up on the fly.

Thirty years ago, any ATF agent showing up at a gun store could be safely assumed as trustworthy to help find and correct mistakes. Today, they can only be assumed as on a mission to find and prosecute as many mistakes as possible.

Take care. I gave up my FFL a few years back, and I will only deal privately where it's legal to do so.

 

[drgrant]

Do you have any evidence of this? I work in an office with ATF and have never heard of any such thing. As a matter of fact I have seen them go out of their way for the dealers in my area.

Do you remember what happened to Type 01 FFLs during and after Clinton was in office? It was a bloodbath.

The same rules are still in effect, the only reason the "rate of removal" is lower now is because the dealers left usually tend to have their crap together enough to survive an audit.

Not to mention, since Obama was put into office, dealers that have not been audited for many years suddenly are getting audited... you're going to tell me there's no correlation? Hint: The guy who is the boss of whoever is running the ATF at this point is the most anti gun attorney general in the history of the US government... who works for the most anti gun president ever elected.... That might tell you something.

The only reason things probably aren't worse right now is because of the slap on the wrist that congress gave them a few years ago after the Richmond VA gun show debacle, on the other hand, its hard to tell if that really has deterred them. If what Hawgleg says is correct, apparently they're still up to that same brand of jackassery, they're just not quite as overt about it. (They got caught in Richmond putting "tails" on pretty much any young, black female that entered the gun show... )

-Mike

 

[Hawgleg44]

Maybe ATF has shot with different small-sized female beginner shooters than I have. Some can barely handle a .25, others can handle any caliber just fine.

Obviously they lay it on thick enough to make it obvious that something isn't right with the situation, but I wonder if selling a gun to a white woman with a black "friend" is supposed to set off more red flags than if she was there with a white guy.

Hey, the ATF is the organization that put that partnership together, not me. I'm just reporting on what happened to the dealer near Freeport, ME. I forgot what the name of his shop was. I was only there one time and bought a rifle on vacation about 6 or 8 years ago.