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Valley Sports in Easthampton, Closing Rumors......??????
- Thread starter NFAVT
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Not that I have heard. I was in a few weeks ago and had my usual chat with Tim and he never said anything. I hope its not true.
My guess is that it is somebody's idea of a sick joke. Rumor said he was dumped on by ATF and was closing at end of July. Came in an email to me. Hope not as well. Tim is a standup guy and runs a tight ship as well as a great shop. SOMEONE has some 'splainin' to do.
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This is not a joke. I spoke to Tim today and he told me the ATF is in fact closing him down. He told me that they spent 3 months going over every piece of paper work he has. They found 1 error on a 4473 from 8 years ago. He was told he could fight it and be charged criminally or he could give up his license and most likely would not be charged. He was given 1 hour to decide and 3 weeks left to operate. Tim is under the impression that the ATF is trying to eliminate ffl's per order of Obama. Some scary food for thought.
Yes this looks true, I drove by the other day and Tim had signs out front saying he is closing ( I think it was July 25th ) , I'm going to try and swing by this week to see whats up, I've known Tim for awile now, he is one of the nicest guys out there. He has treated me real well and has treated the clubs that I belong to real well.
If this is truely something that Obama is making the ATF do that sucks and go's to show you the back handed ways these idiots get " THEIR POLICIES " inforced. If it is something Obama is doing I hope all those gun owners out there that thought that Obama was going to be better and voted for him wake up and vote him out this time.
I'm pi$$ed off, this is not right, as I said Tim is a great guy and would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, it's just not right that "our political people" can get away with $hit like this and close him down.
I'm wondering why the NRA (or GOAL) can't jump in and help him out, I would think that this would be a perfect time for the NRA to jump in and help Tim fight the ATF. I would think this is just the thing for the NRA, they should be helping the gun shop owner out also. The NRA (or any other ASSN) won't be any good for us if we can't go to a shop and buy the guns that these ASSN's are fighting for us to be able to keep.
!!!
If this is truely something that Obama is making the ATF do that sucks and go's to show you the back handed ways these idiots get " THEIR POLICIES " inforced. If it is something Obama is doing I hope all those gun owners out there that thought that Obama was going to be better and voted for him wake up and vote him out this time.
I'm pi$$ed off, this is not right, as I said Tim is a great guy and would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, it's just not right that "our political people" can get away with $hit like this and close him down.
I'm wondering why the NRA (or GOAL) can't jump in and help him out, I would think that this would be a perfect time for the NRA to jump in and help Tim fight the ATF. I would think this is just the thing for the NRA, they should be helping the gun shop owner out also. The NRA (or any other ASSN) won't be any good for us if we can't go to a shop and buy the guns that these ASSN's are fighting for us to be able to keep.
!!!
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Ya I was in there all the time before my latest back injury, I can't get out much now a days.
As I said Tim is a great guy, he allways helped out our clubs with donations for our raffles and just a few weeks ago he helped out NRC with donations of ammo and more for the Women On Target event that we just did.
It was nice to just go in there and BS for alittle while, even if you didn't buy anything he didn't mind "talking guns" with you, I no I spent more money there because of that treatment, it was nice to no that he treated you good weather you bought something or not and as I said I made it a point to buy from him instead of somewhere else because he treated me that way.
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Yep, I agree. He was always up to talk guns, always found me what ammo I was looking for, etc. He answered reloading questions I had as well. I've moved to the other side of the state at this point so I don't get over there, but this is really lame.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
richc
NES Member
I'm not going to defend the ATF here, but if I was going to make a WAG I would think that this isn't just his "first" mistake- or we're not being told the whole story.
I know dealers who have had similar errors in the recent past and they're all still operating
just fine after correcting whatever the problem was.
That said, a "push" by Obama administratively is not out of the cards.... Clinton's DOJ did a similar thing during his administration which killed off a lot of Type 01 FFLs.
-Mike
I know dealers who have had similar errors in the recent past and they're all still operating
just fine after correcting whatever the problem was.
That said, a "push" by Obama administratively is not out of the cards.... Clinton's DOJ did a similar thing during his administration which killed off a lot of Type 01 FFLs.
-Mike
I worked in a gun shop for 9 years and you would not believe the grief that BATF gives you over simple errors. They are sticklers over addresses, spelling, dates, and similar small clerical mistakes. That 4473 must be letter perfect and no customer error or lie goes unmissed.
Another local gun shop here in Maine faced the same shutdown and he has told me personally that had he known how tough the BATF was going to be he would have gone into another business entirely. They can be miserable and they have the law on there side.
Something as simple as buying a gun for someone else can be a disaster for the dealers if that gun ever shows up in a crime. Even if it was legitimate gift deal and no straw purchase they will ignore the buyer and go after the gun shop. Those of you that think there is something amiss in the story need to work as a gun sales person for a while and see just how picky it can be. And many gun buyers are not all saints as well.
Another local gun shop here in Maine faced the same shutdown and he has told me personally that had he known how tough the BATF was going to be he would have gone into another business entirely. They can be miserable and they have the law on there side.
Something as simple as buying a gun for someone else can be a disaster for the dealers if that gun ever shows up in a crime. Even if it was legitimate gift deal and no straw purchase they will ignore the buyer and go after the gun shop. Those of you that think there is something amiss in the story need to work as a gun sales person for a while and see just how picky it can be. And many gun buyers are not all saints as well.
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I did not ask and he did not say. What I wrote is straight from my conversation with him. I am a little curious as well. If I get back there I will ask him. I feel like I got a straight story from him. The general feeling I got was his hands had been tied and there is something going on in the background higher up the chain.
I agree with you here about the truth is some place in the middle. However your experience does not jive at all with what I have been told from the many ffl's I have relationships with. On the other hand I am just a customer and do not see the side you do or have any first hand experience like you. Either way I feel quite uneasy about it.
I talked to Tim today. Everything here is correct. They found one error with a 4473 from 8 years ago. This was his first audit since he opened 8 years ago. They did in fact tell him that he could fight it, or turn his license in and gave him one hour to decide. I won't comment on what the mistake was, but it was not that bad. This is definitely a case of heavy handed agents bearing down on him with an agenda. The ATF has apparently been tasked with reducing gun dealers even farther than when Clinton was POTUS. They are now using the back door approach, instead of passing more laws, they will just eliminate dealers. Pity is that there are plenty enough semi crooked dealers out there who at least may deserve the heat, but Tim sure is not one of those.
The other possibility is the ATF types blew smoke up his ass and he fell for it hook line and sinker.
I find this "make a decision in an hour" thing to be a little odd, even out of character for them.
Usually if they're going to indict someone they just go ahead and do it. Sounds like they probably didn't have enough real evidence and thought they could play hardball with him and that he would cave on the first pitch, even though they might not have even had a ball in their hand. I wonder if he had a good lawyer around. Something makes me think this was not the case.
-Mike
I find this "make a decision in an hour" thing to be a little odd, even out of character for them.
Usually if they're going to indict someone they just go ahead and do it. Sounds like they probably didn't have enough real evidence and thought they could play hardball with him and that he would cave on the first pitch, even though they might not have even had a ball in their hand. I wonder if he had a good lawyer around. Something makes me think this was not the case.
-Mike
Ah, that's too bad. I was there about a month ago -seemed like real nice shop.
I heard a little more info on this today. One of my mother's co-workers had some guns there on consignment, and was told he had to come pick them up, due to the ATF shutting him down.
The explanation he got was that the owner did not know he had to do NICS checks on people who retrieve their unsold consignment firearms before returning them. Unless he's had only one consignment gun in the past 8 years, there's a little more to this story.
Again, just what I heard today.
The explanation he got was that the owner did not know he had to do NICS checks on people who retrieve their unsold consignment firearms before returning them. Unless he's had only one consignment gun in the past 8 years, there's a little more to this story.
Again, just what I heard today.
Like I said - in the middle there is the truth. I'm not in any way condoning what the ATF did. In fact, I was hoping Tim would have said "F-you" to the ATF and appealed to NES for help. I would have...The "give up your license or choose to fight in one hour" crap - if true, is really disturbing. I would have been on the phone to a lawyer and told the ATF to come back with a warrant or an army tank full of CS, a bail of hay and a lighter...I have also been through a gun audit. They suck. The ATF looks for everything and when they find something clerical, they make you correct it. They bitch about it - maybe even fine you for it, but the don't pull your license for a single 8-year old violation unless it was something serious...If the hysteria about the POTUS hiring a bunch of new ATF agents to shut down FFL's is also true, well then dealers may want to start standing up for themselves now won't they?
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Mark, I may have missed it but do you have a ffl or have you worked for one?
Yup. why didn`t he tell them to go F#$% themselves and call a lawyer?
Probably because it would bankrupt him to try and fight it.
As I noted before, I worked in a gun shop for over 8 years. If we kept a gun for mounting a scope more than 24 hours we had to do a set of E4433's. That is the law as I understand it. Even consignment guns that were there more than 24 hours would need to be papered.
Granted the laws are perverse and each administration interprets them differently. The problem is that if such a gun shop owner doesn't fully understand the rules and obeys them 110% he is in deep doo doo. This tyrannical interpretation of the laws is yet another way that gun ownership can be harrassed while the administration can straight faced say they are supporters. Two faced hypocrisy is what it is.
Granted the laws are perverse and each administration interprets them differently. The problem is that if such a gun shop owner doesn't fully understand the rules and obeys them 110% he is in deep doo doo. This tyrannical interpretation of the laws is yet another way that gun ownership can be harrassed while the administration can straight faced say they are supporters. Two faced hypocrisy is what it is.
You don't have to fill out forms of any kind for a gun going in for repair. I think it goes in the dealer's BB, and out when it's done.
Consignment guns, or guns pawned (not really applicable in new england, as I know of no states up here that allow guns to be pawned) are a whole other ballgame and have a bunch of other rules attached to them. Typically those guns must be run through 4473/NICS if they go back to the person who put them on consignment.
-Mike
Consignment guns, or guns pawned (not really applicable in new england, as I know of no states up here that allow guns to be pawned) are a whole other ballgame and have a bunch of other rules attached to them. Typically those guns must be run through 4473/NICS if they go back to the person who put them on consignment.
-Mike
Yes, I was at Valley Sports Sunday and talked to Tim. His story is as the others have said...one mistake by an employee 8 years ago. Given an hour to make a choice, too expensive to fight and then if he wins, he would be red flagged forever. He said they appeared to be on a witch hunt. 
It's a shame. he is a great guy and there aren't any stores like his left in this area...
It's a shame. he is a great guy and there aren't any stores like his left in this area...
