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Vaccine industry about to recruit gun-toting police to enforce mandatory medical interventions
- Thread starter Reptile
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You got the cart before the horse.
If the kids here are vaccinated they won't get the f***ing measles no matter who they come in contact with. If the non vaccine people have their way and more and more stop getting vaccines we'll be backstopping......and measles will have a comeback along with other diseases.
Legal immigrants normally are required to get a bunch of vaccines. Specifically, if they are applying for an immigrant visa, they have to get vaccines before and after entry, as well as some tests for things like chicken pox immunity. However, if they are just visiting, I'm not aware of any such requirements. And, of course, illegals have no such requirements.
Obviously not since you just said those vaccinated won't get the measles. You choose to get your kids vaccinated all is well right? You can't claim a vaccine works no matter who a kid comes in contact with and then say there is danger. Then only the unvaccinated will die off. There will be statistical proof and the argument is resolved.
For the record I am not anti vaxx. I'm in the cautious vaxx camp. If I had children I would go the single pathogen route no matter what it cost.
If I had other family members who had children with bad reactions to these I would wait as long as possible and absolutely keep it to the bare minimum.
Varmint
NES Member
SIDS was common when they were putting babies on soft mattresses and when docs were telling mom’s not to breastfeed. Both those problems have been corrected so SIDS cases have dropped.
The whole medical community telling moms not to breastfeed is yet another example of doctors being ignorant and favoring corporations over patients. Always be vigilant, and don’t be trusting of authority figures.
The whole medical community telling moms not to breastfeed is yet another example of doctors being ignorant and favoring corporations over patients. Always be vigilant, and don’t be trusting of authority figures.
I read an article about the corporate profits of not breastfeeding. The damn formula companies made huge campaigns in third world countries pushing how healthier formula was over breastfeeding. This was in the 1980s. Some third world countries started to believe it and started to have governments and non profs buy formula for these areas of the world. Well.......formula needs to be mixed with water. Water of course is filthy in most of these areas.......and infant mortality skyrocketed due directly to formula use to feed infants.
Breasts........they are not just for fun!
I remember the whole, don’t breast feed crap
From doctors. A nod to the formula industry. Formula is so damn expensive that there are crooks out there specifically stealing formula. God bless them!
I don’t know how or why doctors and the pharmaceutical companies have gained such omnipotence with such a wide swath of the population. They call it ‘practicing’ medicine for a reason. They also call us ‘patients’ because patience is required while they try to get their heads out of their arses.
I too find the people who rail against people who refuse vaccines saying that they’re endangering everyone else, and then in the same breath say “if you get the f&);&ing measles vaccine you won’t get measles!” Then why do you care?
Reading or hearing that from people puts them in my “don’t waste time with that person’s optinion. They have no logic, no education and no common sense.”
People toss herd immunity around all the time
And have no idea what it is.
I had 3 kids, back to back to back 10 years ago. SIDS is still mentioned, a lot. It drove me crazy, do I need to mention my eldest slept with his eyes open, yeah, took 20 years off my life when that crap started. Look in crib, kids eyes are open and babies barely breathe when sleeping.
As to the third world country residents flooding into the US, um, yeah, I know all about the diseases they carry. That's the point that vaxers are making about 'forcing' people to get vaccinated. TB is still strong south of the border. Been exposed, who knows if I carry it, I still test negative, but it can hang around and test negative. From personal experience, we went through cases of lice shampoo last time I was on the border. Sent hundreds to the hospital due to any number of illnesses we didn't get told about. So I have no clue what I was exposed to. That's what Ellis Island was for, keep people isolated until you knew they were healthy before letting them into the country. Now, we just let them in, legal or illegal.
I'll say again, until there is a double blind study with hundreds, if not thousands of test subjects, anti-vaxxers are going to have a hard time convincing people that vaccines are the direct, singular cause of Autism. Ok, I did the google, is this realistic? I don't know, the articles author stipulates that most countries don't track Autism like we do, have differing definitions of what Autism is, yada yada:
Autism Rates across the Developed World
Is Hong Kong indicative of the rest of China? There are a whole lot of holes in the data set, but it's interesting to look at. Does Germany not vaccinate? Or do they do less? Do they just not report cases?
chindogg
NES Member
I chose to have my son stop being vaccinated when he was about five or six. My daughter has not had any vaccines except once when she cut her hand when she was around three years old. After receiving a tetanus shot she had her first and only seizure of her life the following day. Enough said. I hear about vaccines vaccines vaccines. All these kids on vaccines are always sick my two kids never miss a day sick from school. No one’s going to tell me I have to vaccinate my kids. They want to come around With their guns and silly clubs and tell me I’ve got to vaccinate my kids? Good luck with that. That’s my go time. End of story. No doubt. I hope it never comes to that.
We do have a large enough database of unvaccinated people to do a long term health outcome comparrison against a fully vaccinated popularion. This hasn’t been done, and you can draw your own conclusions as to why.
mibro
NES Member
According to the CDC "two doses of MMR vaccine are about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93% effective."
No vaccine is 100% effective to the best of my knowledge.
There are also awkward data points like the Canadian study that showed receiving the flu vaccine made you more likely to contract the flu. Science has become a quasi-religion and so such heretical results are quickly memory-holed.
“A negative effectiveness suggests the vaccine made people more susceptible to the flu,” Dr. Dickinson says, “We need to do further research to understand why this has happened.”
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I remember getting vaccinated as a kid. I remember they always f***ed me up for a while thereafter in one way or another. My mother discontinued getting them beyond what was forced upon us so that I could attend school. If I had kids these days, I would pass on them as well... As much as I could.
These days I don't get vaccinated for shit. Doc asks if I want the flu shot, I tell him to take his corporate medical profiteering and shove it up his ass.
These days I don't get vaccinated for shit. Doc asks if I want the flu shot, I tell him to take his corporate medical profiteering and shove it up his ass.
Varmint
NES Member
While the docs no longer push formula like they used to, when we were in the hospital with our kids, they offered free liquid formula - the most expensive and the most palatable to babies - this is to get your babies hooked on the most expensive form.
When our kid had jaundice, the docs blamed it on breast milk and wanted us to switch to formula. We told them to fock off. The jaundice went away after a while.
Varmint
NES Member
It makes perfect sense - a vaccine makes your immune system weak temporarily from fighting off the dead virus, so you get the real flu virus, which isn't the one the vaccine contained.
I don't get the flu shot because it's at best, an educated guess from 6-8 months ago. If the flu you get exposed to is one of the ones in the vaccine, you'll be immune, but it could be a different form or mutated to the point it's no longer effective. The whole 'herd immunity' approach is there is no disease to allow it to mutate so the vaccines stay effective. If everyone got the flu shot, and I mean 97 or 98% worldwide, the flu would go away too. Most childhood diseases are limited to 3rd world countries for a reason. We've had one generation of kids not getting vaccinated in large numbers, it'll be interesting to see the long term results.
pastera
NES Member
I posted a link to an article which cited a large study - do you have more than assertions?
Again - you couldn't have an autism diagnosis before it was listed in the DSM.
You also would miss a large majority of cases on the edge of the spectrum because of widespread ignorance of the earliest symptoms before large scale advocacy in the 90's.
Also, I never said that rate of incidence has not risen, only that vaccines are not the cause and that better diagnosis explains a large factor.
mibro
NES Member
Stop asking for "evidence." It's like listening to a Flat Earther asking for "proof" the Earth is
There is abundant proof that vaccines work as intended to prevent disease. There's no proof at all that vaccines cause autism even if you may be personally convinced that is so. The "proof" such as it is is the same "proof" the global warmers have, a single correlation which may or may not be causative.
You’re making some false assumptions. Herd immunity was a theory derived from observing communities that were exposed to wild forms of diseases, and then gaining lifelong, permanent immunity. We have nothing like that with vaccines. Any vaccine protection is temporary, and has been stated many times, it’s never 100% to begin with. Vaccine herd immunity is a myth. It’s a pharmaceutical industry generated marketing line. The diseases that are still present in the 3rd world exist due to many of the same reasons they existed here...poor sanitation, hygiene, overcrowding, lack of access to clean drinking water, poor nutrition, etc.
He stated autism has always existed. I’m asking for evidence of that statement. I made the claim for us to believe autism has always existed, we have to believe that we’ve missed over 1,000,000,000 cases of autism until the mid 20th century. It’s simple math. He called it a strawman.
chindogg
NES Member
Do what you like. Get all the vaccinations you want and if you have kids have a party with them and their vaccines too. I will not be attending any of these parties. But that’s the great thing of living and what is supposed to be a free society. Do what’s good for you and don’t tell me What I should be doing or am required to do.
pastera
NES Member
Never advocated for forced vaccination - wrong person.
I stated that autism existed long before the MMR or the addition of it's symptoms to the DSM and that the MMR is not the cause of autism.
Your argument breaks down here, there was no 'Autism' until the mid 20th century because they made up the term then. Before that, it was just the 'retarded' kid down the block. So, no, there will be no documented cases of Autism before the term was defined. But there is plenty of numbers for kids who were institutionalized for 'mental reasons' long before the 20th century.
pastera
NES Member
You won't find direct historical evidence as diagnosed individuals - it's impossible because the clinical description is new.
What you will find is descriptions of individual behavior that would lead an informed individual to believe that the subject was on the spectrum.
There are several individuals here on NES who are too old to have been diagnosed with autism but nevertheless are on the spectrum. Some predate the MMR by quite a bit.
Lawsuit Alleges Widely-Used Shingles Vaccine Caused Permanent Loss of Eyesight
"The lawsuits filed across the nation have alleged that Merck's blockbuster shingles vaccine causes viral injuries such as loss of eyesight, complete and permanent hearing loss, and the very virus it was designed to prevent, shingles."
"The lawsuits filed across the nation have alleged that Merck's blockbuster shingles vaccine causes viral injuries such as loss of eyesight, complete and permanent hearing loss, and the very virus it was designed to prevent, shingles."
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