USPSA Slot Policy (thread drift....)

[GTOShootr]

I didn't want to hijack Jon's IDPA thread so here's a new one...

That is not a rule, but a policy. Yes, there is a difference - slot policy is not part of the rulebook, but is a separate board adopoted policy.

The main problem with the "Class winner" concept is that the slots have to come from somewhere. We could get some from the presidential allotment, but I would be reluctant to require the president to give up 18 of his 20 slots for a three division match (L/P/R). One other possible approach is to create a "first available slot" procedure for these folks (ie, they get offered returned slots before they are made available on the public waiting list, and at the "awarded slot" price (a $25 discount off the waitlist price). Based on history, this would mean they always get slots if they want them.

I'd be interested in hearing what USPSA members think of this idea before the March 7-8 board meeting in Dallas.

I wasn’t going to post this discussion because I’ve already written a letter to the USPSA President about it and was planning to write the Area directors. However, since Rob said he’d like to hear opinions, here is goes.

This is the current slot policy:
http://www.uspsa-nationals.org/archive/2007 Slot policy.pdf

Keeping it simple, if you win your class (M-D) or finish High Lady, Senior, Super Senior, or Junior at your Area (regional) match, you earn a slot to the following year’s Nationals. If your division has 100 or more competitors, second in class would also earn a slot.

They also acknowledge the first six Level III matches of the year, referred to as “Other” matches. Among these are Sectionals and ones like SummerBlast. Finishing in the top 3 overall will earn you a slot there.

From the Nationals, the biggest match in the country, the following earn slots: Top 16, Top 8 Ladies, and High Junior. Class winners are not invited back and the High Senior and Super Senior are not invited back.

The real question is simple. It has to do with the principle behind such a policy. Do you think that a class winner at an Area match is more deserving of a slot than the class winner from the Nationals? If so why?

Needless to say Nationals are much longer, harder, and consist of better shooters than Area matches. It is obvious to me and everyone I have spoken to that first in line for earned slots should be those that placed highest in the category at the largest match of the year, not those that placed highest, or sometimes second highest, in the category in some of the middle-sized matches of the year.

I would like to know if Rob, as the Area director, agrees on the principle part.

As for the other part, “where should these slots come from?” That is confusing. My initial gut says, I don’t know, that’s why I don’t hold an office. As just a member of relatively few years, I don’t know if my role should be coming up with such a policy. However, that doesn’t mean I can’t spot a problem when I see one.

My attempt at coming up with an answer for that part is that it should come down to looking at the policy and looking at the pool of possible invitees and asking who justified their invitation. I can’t see how you can say a Nationals class winner didn’t do that. So the question is really “who earned the slots”, not “where should these slots come from?”

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve Lyons

 

[Supermoto]

I agree with Steve, altough I would like to add that a win in any Area should count, not just you home area.

The main problem with the "Class winner" concept is that the slots have to come from somewhere

Bump those that not earned the spot out. 1st place in the nats surely carries more weight than 2nd at an Area or Presidential handout spots..

Winners should be rewarded for their efforts

 

[noidlight]

Good post, Steve. I agree, you should have the opportunity to defend your title if you win your class.

 

[GTOShootr]

I just got a response to my letter to the President, so this issue is pretty much solved.

He said he will lobby to add Class Champions to also be awarded a slot to the next year’s Nationals.

Thanks!

 

[TY43215]

I just got a response to my letter to the President, so this issue is pretty much solved.

He said he will lobby to add Class Champions to also be awarded a slot to the next year’s Nationals.

Thanks!

I am impressed with the answer. Good work from you and excellent response from USPSA President.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I just got a response to my letter to the President, so this issue is pretty much solved.

The president still has to get the board to approve it. He has my vote, and I expect this will be an easy win at the next meeting (March 7/8, Dallas). I will be interested in seeing where he proposes we get the slots since a three division match will need 18 slots, and this is a zero sum game.

What I agree with:

- Class winners at USPSA nationals should get slots

What I don't agree with (a bit off topic, but covered in your other mails)

- The policy of limiting slots from Area matches to winners within the area should be discontinued. This policy gives members a sense of ownership of "their" area match. Convince me I am wrong . I also expect that this is a battle I would lose if I chose to fight for it at the board meeting.

So the question is really “who earned the slots”, not “where should these slots come from?”

Actually, the question is "what slot is currently awarded to someone less deserving than a class winner.". Now that we have the president's support, we'll figure it out.

 

[GTOShootr]

- The policy of limiting slots from Area matches to winners within the area should be discontinued. This policy gives members a sense of ownership of "their" area match. Convince me I am wrong . I also expect that this is a battle I would lose if I chose to fight for it at the board meeting.

That part isn't mine. I can see where that part of the policy in its current state is coming from. It would get into other issues to explain. I don't see it being changed either.

I am very happy with the response from the President and my Area Director. That is how an organization should work.

 

[Supermoto]

I am very happy with the response from the President and my Area Director. That is how an organization should work.

+1
It great to see that if there is an issue, you can run it up the chain and it will get heard

 

[hdgun]

I can not believe it has gone on this long with no complaints.

 

[38supermatt]

and I can't believe that it wasn't actually in there all along.
I'll try to help Rob with the, where do you get the slots from?
And i'll offer solutions.

Let's start with the ones that duplicate other slots
under Returning Champions from the Nationals, with a division that had more than 100 competitors, the top 16 men, top 8 lady and top jr are invited back

Eliminate top junior if a junior finished in the top 16, as has occurred for the past few years in many divisions. Quit the practice of dropping it down to the next available person who qualifies for whatever sub category that hasn't been filled elsewhere

under Area Championships-
you've got a slot allocated to both super senior and senior.
I think Senior ought to be eliminated if they get beat by a super senior. Where's the accomplishment in: "I just beat all the other old guys but got beat by the really old guy."
It is similar to the ridiculousness in registered skeet with a category for like every 5 years of age you are. I think i'm sub-sub-sub senior or something foolish like that at 35. Why not just have a middle aged class? (Which actually could be the funniest of all the categories if USPSA ever wanted to create "Middle Aged" as a category) I'm willing to bet a good number of super seniors beat the seniors every year.

Returned slots, the slots declined are offered down to the next 3 eligible people, so essentially you could be offering slots to the 5th place finisher in a class: Ex: B 1st, 2nd, 3rd decline, 4th accepts, now you've still got the second place slot to give away, you can award it as low as 5th.
Revise this to: slots declined are only offered to as low as 4th place in class.

The clubs and sections is the vaguest since we don't know how many are actually available based on club credits and activity fees. Since that is determined by how many are left and after the previous distributions, just take all of them right out of there. If the remainder is still distributed based on activity fees and credits, you're still awarding them proportionally, just from a pool of like 5 less.
I don't see this as taking a slot away from anyone who has earned it. People who have "earned" a slot through the distribution of slots based on, basically, the activity of the clubs and the population in the area, is hardly earning it, but more purchasing it through activity. Say you've got 150 slots left over to divide amongst the remaining clubs and sections. Who's going to object if that is decreased by 5 to 145 left to divide up? Especially when they know the 5 spots turned over are to the national champions in their class.

There are just some suggestions, with hard numbers and a showing where all the slots end up, this could be refined considerably.

 

[scottb]

Sorry for the late post but I had some computer problems yesterday.

The defending national champion of a class division should be allowed (via automatic slot) to defend his championship; period.

 

[Glshooter]

This is the current slot policy:
http://www.uspsa-nationals.org/archive/2007 Slot policy.pdf

Keeping it simple, if you win your class (M-D) or finish High Lady, Senior, Super Senior, or Junior at your Area (regional) match, you earn a slot to the following year’s Nationals. If your division has 100 or more competitors, second in class would also earn a slot.

Not to drift this thread too much, but after reading the rules, am I correct in assuming that Production division class winners at Area 7 last year WILL NOT get slots because there were only 46 competitors?

 

[GTOShootr]

Not to drift this thread too much, but after reading the rules, am I correct in assuming that Production division class winners at Area 7 last year WILL NOT get slots because there were only 46 competitors?

You are correct, not enough competitors.

Also, not enough GMs to count as a classifier.