Using an FFL to do personal transfer is ILLEGAL if you have used your 4 for the year

Careful.

According to federal law, if you're in the business of selling firearms, you must have an FFL. It doesn't matter whether you're selling FTF or transferring through a dealer.

For example, let's say that during the Obama gun buying frenzy last year, I went around New England buying up every stripped lower, upper, and complete AR I could get my grubby hands on. Let's say that I then marked them up to at least twice what I paid for them, and sold them here in the Classifieds forum to people with mommy/daddy issues and less than 300 guns. Let's also say that after four FTF transfers, I went through a dealer with everything.

The BATFE would come down on me like a ton of bricks because I was in it to make money.

Think about it... Most states don't have the 4-transfer-per-year limit. Why doesn't every Tom, Dick, and Harry open up a gun store without an FFL in those states?

With that said, it's probably way over-cautious to treat 4 sales/trades as a hard cap. Even if you're making a little dough, if you're enhancing your collection by buying more guns with the money you make, they'd be hard pressed to prove you're in the business of selling guns.

Thanks for that. I just learned something. While I have never sold a gun in my life I was under the impression that the ATF would only object to a high volume of personal sales (no FFL involved). I just assumed that one could sell unlimited numbers through a third-party FFL and be fine, regardless of motive or profit, and that going through the FFL somehow blessed the transaction. I had that wrong.
 
Careful.

For example, let's say that during the Obama gun buying frenzy last year, I went around New England buying up every stripped lower, upper, and complete AR I could get my grubby hands on. Let's say that I then marked them up to at least twice what I paid for them, and sold them here in the Classifieds forum to people with mommy/daddy issues and less than 300 guns. Let's also say that after four FTF transfers, I went through a dealer with everything.

The BATFE would come down on me like a ton of bricks because I was in it to make money.

AHAHAH-1.gif
 
I've noticed that some FFLs in this state really don't have a clue. I think that's how MA wants it though. Make as many dealers as possible refuse sales to "err on the side of caution." I get it, it's their rear end if they're right and you're wrong about the laws, but you'd think they'd at least do some basic research.
 
Careful.

According to federal law, if you're in the business of selling firearms, you must have an FFL. It doesn't matter whether you're selling FTF or transferring through a dealer.

An associate of mine got into big trouble this way. He was a home FFL until ATF came around to enforce local zoning ordinances. But they had not stripped him of his FFL. Just told him he couldn't sell. So he started selling through another FFL who would transact the sales for him.

Big trouble. Didn't matter that he was an ex-Marine or that he was MSP (now retired). They turned his life upside down. Cost him a lot to get out of it. The experience left him bitter.

ETA: He was buying on his own FFL, selling through another. You can't do that, evidently.
 
Thanks for that. I just learned something. While I have never sold a gun in my life I was under the impression that the ATF would only object to a high volume of personal sales (no FFL involved). I just assumed that one could sell unlimited numbers through a third-party FFL and be fine, regardless of motive or profit, and that going through the FFL somehow blessed the transaction. I had that wrong.

Truth be told the odds of it being a problem are not very high under most circumstances
unless flags start getting raised like an inordinate number of MHP forms filled out with
your name on it, etc. You'd have to be really obnoxious and blatant in your activities in order to get BATFE interested in you. A little common sense would
avoid most problems.

The fact of the matter is BATFE knows some people are collectors, which is fine, and
buying and selling is fine, even lots of guns, it's just that it shouldn't be done in a way that produces the the appearance that the collector is trying to make a profit bearing business out of that activity- eg, an activity which the person would do on a regular basis to generate income. There are obviously a bunch of factors in what determines "profit motive. "

The irony of the whole thing is BATFE can deny a Type 01 FFL application based on "lack of profit motive" so it's important to know that the door swings both
ways.

-Mike
 
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