Using a firearm in self defense

Last edited:
I concur 100%, and add only the following:

The OP's question can be considered irrelevant, for this reason: use of deadly force for self-protection is only warranted (legally or morally) when the situation is so dire that you don't care about anything else except surviving.

As for hand wringing, I have personal knowledge of only one incident. Happened about ten years ago, very near by. Homeowner shot B&E guy at 1400. At 1700, local PD held news conference declaring shooting entirely justified. Homeowner was never named in any action, criminal or civil. No action was ever taken on LTC, and no firearms were confiscated.

Now I know you can't draw a trend line based on one data point, but this is the only data point I have..

I'll add a data point because I know someone who, as a normal citizen, did utilize deadly force far outside his home. He shot and killed a very bad guy. He wasn't charged, he didn't lose his LTC, but he did lose a sizable wrongful death suit - which he never paid.

Sometimes the true just isn't as interesting as the legends, but people who prudently exercise deadly force for self-defense are not regulatory prosecuted or persecuted. We seem to have the conversation every year or so on NES.
 
They come with a list of ALL guns ever registered to you and expect to find all of them (including those you sold years ago). If you hold anything back or lie, and they figure it out (and many LEOs are pretty good of smoking out BS), you will get prosecuted for failure to turn over everything, it's a felony. How lucky do you feel . . . theoretically?

It would make it real fun if you had any unmated lowers that were not "complete" firearms yet that had been reported to BATF but not to FRB.
 
I'll add a data point because I know someone who, as a normal citizen, did utilize deadly force far outside his home. He shot and killed a very bad guy. He wasn't charged, he didn't lose his LTC, but he did lose a sizable wrongful death suit - which he never paid.

Sometimes the true just isn't as interesting as the legends, but people who prudently exercise deadly force for self-defense are not regulatory prosecuted or persecuted. We seem to have the conversation every year or so on NES.

I think part of the problem is the public never hears about the stories where a gun in the hand of a citizen saves a life and it is completely justified. At least they don't seem to stay on the main stream media very long.
 
It would make it real fun if you had any unmated lowers that were not "complete" firearms yet that had been reported to BATF but not to FRB.

I don't see how mated or unmated is an issue here though. the lower is what is considered the firearm. so i still dont understand whyd id go to jail just becauase i have 3 complete (as in able to fire) previously mated lowers without their uppers because I may have coincidentally given them away 3 weeks prior or something? makes no sense. ETA: I guess it doesn't have to make sense...this is MA after all.
 
Last edited:
Hypothetically, is it legal to lock up MA registered firearms outside of MA to get them out of the jurisdiction of MA so they may not be confiscated in after a self-defense incident?

IANAL but since it is a MA registered firearm I would think they would want to confirm the whereabouts of it regardless if it's in NH or not.
 
http://nypost.com/2013/07/26/zero-for-hero-judge-snubs-man-hurt-stopping-butcher-of-brighton-beach/

i really like to emphasis this one line from the article....

2 cops sit back and watch a guy get stabbed to death and do nothing.....

Quite a story. Very few people could best an attacker with an 8 inch knife.

The Supreme Court has affirmed more than once that the police have no duty to protect the public. And these were NY city transit police. Probably not the best of the best.
 
I don't see how mated or unmated is an issue here though. the lower is what is considered the firearm. so i still dont understand whyd id go to jail just becauase i have 3 complete (as in able to fire) previously mated lowers without their uppers because I may have coincidentally given them away 3 weeks prior or something? makes no sense. ETA: I guess it doesn't have to make sense...this is MA after all.

Because, as I recall, it is not a firearm in MA until it is mated, then you have to register it. If I have a bunch of lowers, they are firearms under Fed law but not MA until they are mated.
 
Because, as I recall, it is not a firearm in MA until it is mated, then you have to register it. If I have a bunch of lowers, they are firearms under Fed law but not MA until they are mated.

So a completed lower is not considered a firearm until it has been mated with a workable upper?

I was always under the impression that the lower was considered a firearm once it is able to fire a cartridge, regardless if it has been mated to an upper or not.

but again, since uppers are not registered and not considered a firearm and upper receiver and barrel groups can be possessed by unlicensed individuals as well, there should be no reason to disclose the whereabouts of just the upper receivers of unused rifles if they come and take your firearms.
 
I think part of the problem is the public never hears about the stories where a gun in the hand of a citizen saves a life and it is completely justified. At least they don't seem to stay on the main stream media very long.

That and I suspect that most people involved in a self-defense shooting probably want to shun the spotlight. I would.
 
I appreciate all the responses on this topic, keep them coming. This is something I think about often, and as gunslingers, we all should be thinking about. I'd really like to hear more about recent real world cases of and from MA residents who have been through a legitimate self defense with firearm scenario. Speculation is ok, but there's no substitution for real events

There was an off duty Boston Housing Police officer which defended himself from home invaders this year. Not sure what happened to that case.
 
Who has actually had ALL thier guns taken following a SDGU?

I have some reading to do but what is being said here does not match what I remember.

You our also have the ability to transfer your firearms to another permit holder following confiscation. Because is that happens that what it is....
 
I'll add a data point because I know someone who, as a normal citizen, did utilize deadly force far outside his home. He shot and killed a very bad guy. He wasn't charged, he didn't lose his LTC, but he did lose a sizable wrongful death suit - which he never paid.

Sometimes the true just isn't as interesting as the legends, but people who prudently exercise deadly force for self-defense are not regulatory prosecuted or persecuted. We seem to have the conversation every year or so on NES.

Did he never pay because he's judgement proof or did he get the award vacated or overturned somehow?
 
I mean, Len, you sound like you know what you are talking about but lets just say I "know someone very close to me" who used their pistol in self defense. that pistol was taken in as evidence but was returned to them within a week. the guy that was shot did not die, and that may or may not change the circumstances, but outside of a basic interview from the PD, all guns remained at home in the safe. and like I said, the pistol that was used was returned to the owner a little under a week later. open and shut case.

but then again, I dont know anyone who would openly brag about having to defend themselves who could come out and second this. it could be an isolated issue, IDK the laws as well as you do, Im just telling you what happened with a close friend.

ALSO: this person was not arrested or charged, was told by PD that there will be phone calls and an investigation obvioulsy. but was allowed to go home from the scene.
 
Last edited:
I mean, Len, you sound like you know what you are talking about but lets just say I "know someone very close to me" who used their pistol in self defense. that pistol was taken in as evidence but was returned to them within a week. the guy that was shot did not die, and that may or may not change the circumstances, but outside of a basic interview from the PD, all guns remained at home in the safe. and like I said, the pistol that was used was returned to the owner a little under a week later. open and shut case.

but then again, I dont know anyone who would openly brag about having to defend themselves who could come out and second this. it could be an isolated issue, IDK the laws as well as you do, Im just telling you what happened with a close friend.

ALSO: this person was not arrested or charged, was told by PD that there will be phone calls and an investigation obvioulsy. but was allowed to go home from the scene.
Impossible, that kind of reasonable response could never happen in Massachusetts. I'm sure you're mistaken and that the person you know is probably in a secret supermax prison, their property and belongs have been forfeit to the state and their children are in foster care.
 
Impossible, that kind of reasonable response could never happen in Massachusetts. I'm sure you're mistaken and that the person you know is probably in a secret supermax prison, their property and belongs have been forfeit to the state and their children are in foster care.

it happened. trust me. I am very close with this person. I wont give details of the case because I dont want people using the google machine to try to find the persoanl information. I dont think it even made the news to be honest. lets just say the attacker admitted his intent, apologized on the spot. The GSW was not life threatening at all and he was able to walk into the ambulance. The attacker was charged with a crime. open and shut case.
 
Last edited:
it happened. trust me. I am very close with this person. I wont give details of the case because I dont want people using the google machine to try to find the persoanl information. I dont think it even made the news to be honest. lets just say the attacker admitted his intent, apologized on the spot. The GSW was not life threatening at all and he was able to walk into the ambulance. The attacker was charged with a crime. open and shut case.

Pretty sure he was being a bit sarcastic, based on the fact he saw similar situation himself below.

I'll add a data point because I know someone who, as a normal citizen, did utilize deadly force far outside his home. He shot and killed a very bad guy. He wasn't charged, he didn't lose his LTC, but he did lose a sizable wrongful death suit - which he never paid.

Sometimes the true just isn't as interesting as the legends, but people who prudently exercise deadly force for self-defense are not regulatory prosecuted or persecuted. We seem to have the conversation every year or so on NES.
 
There is no law that DEMANDS that everything be confiscated in a self-defense shooting. Results will be situational, but I know the tenor of a few PDs and that would be the most likely result unless it was so clear cut that they couldn't get away with it.

I recall reading that the guy at MGH had his LTC suspended for the 6 months they took to decide not to prosecute him. No LTC means no guns and MGL does DEMAND that they be confiscated in every case of a suspension/revocation.
 
There is no law that DEMANDS that everything be confiscated in a self-defense shooting. Results will be situational, but I know the tenor of a few PDs and that would be the most likely result unless it was so clear cut that they couldn't get away with it.

I recall reading that the guy at MGH had his LTC suspended for the 6 months they took to decide not to prosecute him. No LTC means no guns and MGL does DEMAND that they be confiscated in every case of a suspension/revocation.

Yea I figured the situation would dictate the actions. If LEO showed up to the scene with a dead guy and a licensed gun holder they cant go off what the one guy says. they would have to investigate and cover all their P's and Q's. but in my friends case, the attacker was alive and conceous to tell the truth about what happened Im sure made it a lot easier to open and shut the case easily.

I guess my point is, do what you need to do to defend yourself and family. I would rather be alive and lose my LTC during the duration of an investigation than be dead. Im sure other may feel differently but... just my $.02
 
it happened. trust me. I am very close with this person. I wont give details of the case because I dont want people using the google machine to try to find the persoanl information. I dont think it even made the news to be honest. lets just say the attacker admitted his intent, apologized on the spot. The GSW was not life threatening at all and he was able to walk into the ambulance. The attacker was charged with a crime. open and shut case.

Sorry, I thought my sarcasm was more transparent.
 
Yea I figured the situation would dictate the actions. If LEO showed up to the scene with a dead guy and a licensed gun holder they cant go off what the one guy says. they would have to investigate and cover all their P's and Q's. but in my friends case, the attacker was alive and conceous to tell the truth about what happened Im sure made it a lot easier to open and shut the case easily.

I guess my point is, do what you need to do to defend yourself and family. I would rather be alive and lose my LTC during the duration of an investigation than be dead. Im sure other may feel differently but... just my $.02

Do you have any idea the percentage of perps who come right out and admit that they CAUSED the shooting? I'd put it very close to the odds of catching a unicorn.

To your second point, I agree, BUT . . . in a lot of cases these days the perps are gang members and their "friends" will seek out revenge on you or your Family. Left totally defenseless, the second attack might be fatal for you or your Family. That in particular is why I object to the way "business is handled" in MA!!
 
Im curious if a green town would be more understanding in a home invasion defense situation. In either case we all have guns and would not be shy about using them in a situation where deadly force was needed.
 
I mean, Len, you sound like you know what you are talking about but lets just say I "know someone very close to me" who used their pistol in self defense. that pistol was taken in as evidence but was returned to them within a week. the guy that was shot did not die, and that may or may not change the circumstances, but outside of a basic interview from the PD, all guns remained at home in the safe. and like I said, the pistol that was used was returned to the owner a little under a week later. open and shut case.

but then again, I dont know anyone who would openly brag about having to defend themselves who could come out and second this. it could be an isolated issue, IDK the laws as well as you do, Im just telling you what happened with a close friend.

ALSO: this person was not arrested or charged, was told by PD that there will be phone calls and an investigation obvioulsy. but was allowed to go home from the scene.

This sounds about right.
 
They come with a list of ALL guns ever registered to you and expect to find all of them (including those you sold years ago).
It's obvious that the government knows of all your purchase actions in PRMA, but what about when people move into the state with firearms purchased elsewhere?

I didn't think there was any requirement to register firearms upon arrival.

I know the process for tracing a serial number back to the original purchaser is very straightforward, but I didn't know there was any easy way for the government to generate a list of all the firearms that someone might own.
 
I'd highly recommend listening carefully to whatever Lens/Len-2A says (*cough* go to one of his seminars) and reading Andrew Branca's (he posts here) book, The Law of Self Defense

http://www.amazon.com/Law-Self-Defe...415669292&sr=1-1&keywords=law+of+self+defense


Mas Ayoob (expert witness and pistol shooting authority) also has a new book out on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force-...415669292&sr=1-3&keywords=law+of+self+defense

Also look into the GOAL course - Art of Concealed Carry. I think a session is coming up in a week or so.

Agree on the Branca book. Well worth the read. Will have to put the new Ayoob book on my list.
 
Back
Top Bottom