US Navy drone shot down by Iranian missile over Strait of Hormuz: source

10thSFFD

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Tanker attacks in the Gulf — evidence or warmongering? | DW | 21.06.2019

But none of the imagery presented by the US thus far shows a limpet mine. None shows Iranian soldiers attaching a limpet mine. There is still no clear and independently verifiable proof that the two tankers were actually attacked with limpet mines just outside the Strait of Hormuz on June 13 and that Iran is responsible.
 
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You accused me of pulling statistics out of my ass while Madaline Albright said 500,000 dead children were worth it. That's what I was going off of. If I'm off by a few hundred thousand civilian deaths that's good! I don't want my government killing people who mean me no harm. How many civilians died during Iraq War 2 and there after? Have we found those WMD yet? I'm still waiting. And yet the same people who wanted us to attack Iraq now want us to attack Iran.
It's likely you were off about 500,000 people... and I'd blame Hussein over the US by a longshot if in fact there were any deaths at all, because he's actually the piece of shit dictator who's hand is responsible for controlling the fate of his people. Where I agree with you is that there probably were no WMD's... although Hussein certainly wasn't cooperative when it came to that verification process. His consistent F.U. to America/NATO and his murderous "leadership" didn't work out so well for him in the end. Invading Kuwait was another obvious example of his stupidity (and the catalyst for our sanctions). I also don't disagree with Trump backing off of the attack today after he couldn't justify an estimated 150 Iraqi deaths as acceptable retaliation. But to me the fate of Iran is similar to that of Hussein. Its leadership will continue to rattle swords, support terrorism, and to the best of their ability they will try to develop nuclear weapons. Their leadership's course of action will result in the deaths of many innocent civilians just like Hussein caused in Iraq (Gadaffi in Libya, Assad in Syria, etc.).
 
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Clearly you have strong anti-American (and anti-Israeli) opinions... but from what I see your bias is based on a lot of conspiracy-theory, partial truths, and dredging up of missteps and F-ups that all governments make
I just read through his posts again and I don’t see anything I’d consider anti-American in them. So he’s not “clearly” anti-American. I mean, his point about the USS Liberty is very valid. We didn’t retaliate, we instead gave the attackers loads of money. I mean, if anything, defending the country that attack us is what’s anti-American, not the other way around. And there’s also no conspiracy about it. Israel attacking the USS Liberty is a fact. And there’s lots of evidence suggesting it wasn’t a mere mistake.

Can you image the how the E-4 that plugged in the wrong waypoint coordinates feels right about now?
;)
Way more likely to have been an O-3 than an E-4, or E-anything.

If the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman is so important let the chumps who live there deal with it. Because I give zero shits. Why do I give zero shits? Because it has absolutely zero bearing on anything that has to do with my life.
Around a quarter of our oil imports come out of that region, so if you use oil in any way, it surely does have some bearing on your life.

But otherwise I agree with your general sentiment about our involvement over there.
 
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WMD was our justification for invading Iraq. We destroyed that country costing many civilian lives and US servicemen and women too. You admit Iraq was a mistake yet literally the same people that got us into the clusterf×ck known as Iraq want war with Iran and you believe them! Unbelievable. Assad and Hussein were secular dictators unlike our theocratic allies in Saudi Arabia and Israel. We are literally being invaded by the Third World on our southern border and people like you want war with countries that pose no threat to the continental United States.
 

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The funniest thing about this is a certain high ranking DEM visiting Iranian officials coinciding with an uptick in Iranian aggression, big picture is Trump was smart not to strike. There are sneaky people in high places wanting Trump to get involved in a conflict for their political agenda and don’t care how many lives it costs. And since it was just a piece of hardware destroyed with no US servicemen KIA it can go on the list of shit these Iranians have done and the next time they act up we can present this list to the international community and get support for turning their lights off. I’m against any US engagement where US troops can get KIA but if they keep this shit up then drop the F’in hammer on these shitbags, destroy their infrastructure and let Russia rebuild them since they are their big brother. F**K ‘em both
I'm also seeing a lot of talk that this might be an effort on the part of the Iranians to stir up shit with the US, because the religious regime that runs that country is losing it's legitimacy.

One comment I read said that if the theocracy there falls - a good part of the population might even abandon Islam and turn back to Zooastrianism (don't know how much I believe that one)

In any case - I have to give Trump some amount of respect for pulling back on attacking Iran , and then stating openly that he didn't think that killing 150 people was worth it over the loss of a drone.
 

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I would like a way to get the Saudi’s to go to war with Iran - they both suck. Back Saudi through a third party (France is good - big arms dealer and sells to anyone) and get them each to commit because of their version of islam. Think a ‘suicide’ attack by an Iranian operative on Sunni holy site, then a strike on Iran from Saudi territory.

(Suicide meaning they find an identifiable body of an Iranian at the explosion site but not saying he was conscious or even alive to start with)

A missile launched from a Saudi desert would do just fine - again French design is fine.


Too much to ask - but if those countries lost 50% of their populations it wouldn’t hurt.

I do agree with calsdad - kind of hard to sell Trump as a war monger now.
 

calsdad

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I would like a way to get the Saudi’s to go to war with Iran - they both suck. Back Saudi through a third party (France is good - big arms dealer and sells to anyone) and get them each to commit because of their version of islam. Think a ‘suicide’ attack by an Iranian operative on Sunni holy site, then a strike on Iran from Saudi territory.

(Suicide meaning they find an identifiable body of an Iranian at the explosion site but not saying he was conscious or even alive to start with)

A missile launched from a Saudi desert would do just fine - again French design is fine.


Too much to ask - but if those countries lost 50% of their populations it wouldn’t hurt.

I do agree with calsdad - kind of hard to sell Trump as a war monger now.
I like that idea, my only problem with it is that I don't think that Iranians suck - I think their government sucks and the Islamic d-bags who have taken over that country suck. Whereas I pretty much the people who run Saudi Arabia suck - and I think the Saudi people suck.

So if you put a gun to my head and asked me who I would have to throw down with on that fight I'd have to side with Iran. Plus I don't remember the Iranians bombing any marathons lately or flying planes into any buildings in NYC.

The fact that so many Americans think that Saudis are our allies - while they hate Iran with a passion , is to my mind pretty much the most phucked up thing in the world.

But maybe I'm biased. I was friends with a couple of Iranian guys back in my college days and I liked them. One in particular cracked me up because his goal when he graduated college was a blow a bunch of money on a high class hooker in a fur coat. Not sure what the fur coat thing was really about - but I liked where his head was at.
 
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WMD was our justification for invading Iraq. We destroyed that country costing many civilian lives and US servicemen and women too. You admit Iraq was a mistake yet literally the same people that got us into the clusterf×ck known as Iraq want war with Iran and you believe them! Unbelievable. Assad and Hussein were secular dictators unlike our theocratic allies in Saudi Arabia and Israel. We are literally being invaded by the Third World on our southern border and people like you want war with countries that pose no threat to the continental United States.
I admitted (and agree) that we invaded Iraq believing that there were weapons of Mass destruction which was a mistake. I preferred the path of sanctions that you (erroneously) claim cost half a million lives (as if the US were to blame not the brutal dictator)... but a brutal dictator doesn't care about sanctions because he just takes it out on his subjects. And I'm not calling for war with Iran (in fact I praised Trump's restraint in calling off the attack today because it wasn't justifiable compared to the offense that Iran (may have) committed. What I'm saying is that war will be inevitable because the leaders of Iran are showing the same reckless course that other extreme Islamic dictators have shown. I'm also saying that this reckless path is within our sphere of influence because it impacts the world and its economy and security. It's not something that we can dismiss as an "over there" problem thousands of miles away. And when these dictators of state sponsored terrorism do get overthrown I say F them. I'm also saying (repeatedly) that bringing up the Liberty incident from 50+ years ago (where Israel admitted blame, apologized, and made reparations) is irrelevant to any of this discussion.
 

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Let’s be clear here, we don’t belong in the Middle East period, and the Saudi’s are about as trustworthy as Russia and China, they are all sneaky bastards and will bend the US over the desk if given the chance, as far as Israel goes they can handle their own shit if Iran decides to give them a go, same with the Saudi’s. I’m tired of the US policing the world let alone the Middle East.
 
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Around a quarter of our oil imports come out of that region, so if you use oil in any way, it surely does have some bearing on your life.
Well, no. It's slightly less than that.

And besides, it's not really our problem. If the oil is worth exporting you'd figure they would problem solve it. Say build a pipeline that avoids Iran and Somalia shipping concerns.

The cost of the war would outweigh costs via the petroleum market taking a dump in its pants. Imagine the conflict of interest if I reacted in shock if I had to pay $2 more a gallon for a bit instead of the US getting into ANOTHER war thats probably going to cost another trillion dollars? Who the f*** is paying for all this shit?

Christ, the carrier group thats wasting it's time right now off their coast is worth tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars in assets, pay, upkeep, etc. We are already getting hosed on this and the last thing we need to do is escalate it.
 

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https://politics.theonion.com/bolton-calls-for-forceful-iranian-response-to-continuin-1835735060?_ga=2.200224620.332808710.1561225932-1635202113.1551318222

Bolton Calls For Forceful Iranian Response To Continuing U.S. Aggression

NEWS IN BRIEF
Bolton Calls For Forceful Iranian Response To Continuing U.S. Aggression
Yesterday 12:02pm
SEE MORE: JOHN BOLTON


WASHINGTON—Demanding that the Middle Eastern nation retaliate immediately in self-defense against the existential threat posed by America’s military operations, National Security Adviser John Bolton called for a forceful Iranian response Friday to continuing United States aggression. “Iran cannot sit idly by as the American imperialist machine encroaches on their territory, threatens their sovereignty, and endangers their very way of life,” said Bolton, warning that America’s fanatical leadership, steadfast devotion to flexing their muscles in the region, and alleged access to nuclear weapons necessitated that Iran strike back with a vigorous show of force as soon—and as hard—as possible. “The only thing these Westerners understand is violence, so it’s imperative that Iran sends a clear message that they won’t be walked over. Let’s not forget, the U.S. defied a diplomatically negotiated treaty for seemingly no reason at all-—these are dangerous radicals that cannot be reasoned with. They’ve been given every opportunity to back down, but their goal is total domination of the region, and Iran won’t stand for that.” At press time, Bolton said that the only option left on the table was for Iran to launch a full-fledged military strike against the Great Satan.

 
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I admitted (and agree) that we invaded Iraq believing that there were weapons of Mass destruction which was a mistake. I preferred the path of sanctions that you (erroneously) claim cost half a million lives (as if the US were to blame not the brutal dictator)... but a brutal dictator doesn't care about sanctions because he just takes it out on his subjects. And I'm not calling for war with Iran (in fact I praised Trump's restraint in calling off the attack today because it wasn't justifiable compared to the offense that Iran (may have) committed. What I'm saying is that war will be inevitable because the leaders of Iran are showing the same reckless course that other extreme Islamic dictators have shown. I'm also saying that this reckless path is within our sphere of influence because it impacts the world and its economy and security. It's not something that we can dismiss as an "over there" problem thousands of miles away. And when these dictators of state sponsored terrorism do get overthrown I say F them. I'm also saying (repeatedly) that bringing up the Liberty incident from 50+ years ago (where Israel admitted blame, apologized, and made reparations) is irrelevant to any of this discussion.
War with Iran isn't inevitable. We are the ones trying to pick a fight with them. The biggest advocates for war with Iran are the same people who wanted us to invade Iraq. Seems a little strange? Israel and the various Jewish lobbies want us to attack Iran, just like Iraq. While we will never know every detail about the Liberty attack, the evidence and eye witness accounts from US naval personnel make it pretty clear that Israel deliberately attack the ship. Point being with friends like Israel, who needs enemies? We were on friendly terms with the Muslim world prior to 1948 when Israel was formed. Our financial and military support for Israel motivates terrorist groups and many Muslim countries to hate us.
 

Picton

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https://politics.theonion.com/bolton-calls-for-forceful-iranian-response-to-continuin-1835735060?_ga=2.200224620.332808710.1561225932-1635202113.1551318222

Bolton Calls For Forceful Iranian Response To Continuing U.S. Aggression

NEWS IN BRIEF
Bolton Calls For Forceful Iranian Response To Continuing U.S. Aggression
Yesterday 12:02pm
SEE MORE: JOHN BOLTON


WASHINGTON—Demanding that the Middle Eastern nation retaliate immediately in self-defense against the existential threat posed by America’s military operations, National Security Adviser John Bolton called for a forceful Iranian response Friday to continuing United States aggression. “Iran cannot sit idly by as the American imperialist machine encroaches on their territory, threatens their sovereignty, and endangers their very way of life,” said Bolton, warning that America’s fanatical leadership, steadfast devotion to flexing their muscles in the region, and alleged access to nuclear weapons necessitated that Iran strike back with a vigorous show of force as soon—and as hard—as possible. “The only thing these Westerners understand is violence, so it’s imperative that Iran sends a clear message that they won’t be walked over. Let’s not forget, the U.S. defied a diplomatically negotiated treaty for seemingly no reason at all-—these are dangerous radicals that cannot be reasoned with. They’ve been given every opportunity to back down, but their goal is total domination of the region, and Iran won’t stand for that.” At press time, Bolton said that the only option left on the table was for Iran to launch a full-fledged military strike against the Great Satan.
I love the Onion. They get it right SO often.
 
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War with Iran isn't inevitable. We are the ones trying to pick a fight with them. The biggest advocates for war with Iran are the same people who wanted us to invade Iraq. Seems a little strange? Israel and the various Jewish lobbies want us to attack Iran, just like Iraq. While we will never know every detail about the Liberty attack, the evidence and eye witness accounts from US naval personnel make it pretty clear that Israel deliberately attack the ship. Point being with friends like Israel, who needs enemies? We were on friendly terms with the Muslim world prior to 1948 when Israel was formed. Our financial and military support for Israel motivates terrorist groups and many Muslim countries to hate us.
The Arab world has made it clear that hatred for the US and the ultimate plan to destroy all things western/democratic would not wane if we were to pull out of Israel. Arab (extreme/radical Islamic) terrorism can be traced back to the 7th century. The Judeo-Christian world simply doesn't operate according to their doctrine. And if you think it's our support for Israel that fuels the Arab hatred for us, how do you explain the radical Islamic attacks on all of the other parts of the world (from France and throughout Europe, through the middle east and beyond) directed at countries that either don't support Israel or, like most of the world, don't stand up in their defense (out of fear that the radical wrath will be worse if they show any sign of support for Israel). And regarding Jewish lobbies urging the US to attack Iran, I don't buy it. Israel is extremely capable of defending herself against Iran (and in fact GW interceded and prevented a daisy cutter attack on Iranian Nuclear plants for some reason when he was in office). It's like your consistent rehashing of the Liberty which I assert has no bearing on today's events... Israel was three days into the war with the entire Arab world, yet she had taken the upper hand. There was no advantage or logical reason in any way for Israel to want to attack a US ship at that time. It was a terrible F up (which once again, they admitted to, apologized for, and made reparations toward).
 
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Let’s be clear here, we don’t belong in the Middle East period, and the Saudi’s are about as trustworthy as Russia and China, they are all sneaky bastards and will bend the US over the desk if given the chance, as far as Israel goes they can handle their own shit if Iran decides to give them a go, same with the Saudi’s. I’m tired of the US policing the world let alone the Middle East.
Valid argument.
 
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The Arab world has made it clear that hatred for the US and the ultimate plan to destroy all things western/democratic would not wane if we were to pull out of Israel. Arab (extreme/radical Islamic) terrorism can be traced back to the 7th century. The Judeo-Christian world simply doesn't operate according to their doctrine. And if you think it's our support for Israel that fuels the Arab hatred for us, how do you explain the radical Islamic attacks on all of the other parts of the world (from France and throughout Europe, through the middle east and beyond) directed at countries that either don't support Israel or, like most of the world, don't stand up in their defense (out of fear that the radical wrath will be worse if they show any sign of support for Israel). And regarding Jewish lobbies urging the US to attack Iran, I don't buy it. Israel is extremely capable of defending herself against Iran (and in fact GW interceded and prevented a daisy cutter attack on Iranian Nuclear plants for some reason when he was in office). It's like your consistent rehashing of the Liberty which I assert has no bearing on today's events... Israel was three days into the war with the entire Arab world, yet she had taken the upper hand. There was no advantage or logical reason in any way for Israel to want to attack a US ship at that time. It was a terrible F up (which once again, they admitted to, apologized for, and made reparations toward).
Once again the attack on the Liberty was on purpose. The Israelis positively identified her as an American ship before starting their attack. I'd guess that our military budget is probably bigger than the entire GDP of most Muslim countries. We can easily prevent Muslims from entering our countries if we had the guts to but financial globalist want open borders. Invite crazy Muslims into your country, they will start blowing sh!t up eventually. It's no secret that the Western and Muslim world's had been at odds with each other for a long time. We stay out of their countries and they stay out of ours. I don't know where to go with this. You admit Iraq was a mistake, but the same pundits, lobbyist, politicians that wanted the Iraq war now want war with Iran. Do you believe them? They all knew Saddam wasn't a threat to the US. On 9/12/2001 the government should have banned Muslims from entering our country. Bet on the Iranians having sleeper cells here so once we start dropping bombs they'll start blowing up busses. The Israel Lobby has made Israel's enemies our enemies:View: https://youtu.be/N294FMDok98
 

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We should remember, too, that Iranians are politically, linguistically, culturally, and religiously different from the Arab Sunnis that infest the rest of the Middle East.

Americans are bad at recognizing differences like that, but nobody in Iran thinks of themselves as Arabs. And Arabs don’t think of Iranians as allies.
 

Spanz

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i am not understanding this latest move. Why not pick about 100 million dollars worth of military shit, and bomb it right now. why wait. just pick stuff sitting out on the coast, with no humans withing a couple hundred yards, and let loose....
 
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Once again the attack on the Liberty was on purpose. The Israelis positively identified her as an American ship before starting their attack. I'd guess that our military budget is probably bigger than the entire GDP of most Muslim countries. We can easily prevent Muslims from entering our countries if we had the guts to but financial globalist want open borders. Invite crazy Muslims into your country, they will start blowing sh!t up eventually. It's no secret that the Western and Muslim world's had been at odds with each other for a long time. We stay out of their countries and they stay out of ours. I don't know where to go with this. You admit Iraq was a mistake, but the same pundits, lobbyist, politicians that wanted the Iraq war now want war with Iran. Do you believe them? They all knew Saddam wasn't a threat to the US. On 9/12/2001 the government should have banned Muslims from entering our country. Bet on the Iranians having sleeper cells here so once we start dropping bombs they'll start blowing up busses. The Israel Lobby has made Israel's enemies our enemies:View: https://youtu.be/N294FMDok98
Yes, blame Israel because the Islamic extremists want to kill us and everybody else who isn't radical Islam. Makes sense. But you can't explain why they also target countries that have nothing to do with us or supporting Israel (countries like Russia). And let's keep talking about the Liberty because the evidence there is so clear and the 50+ year old Liberty situation is so relevant to anything going on today. Makes perfect sense. Carry on. I've said my piece. But good luck with your plan trying to appease the radicals. Why don't you go over there (pick any radical Islamic area) and let them know that you're an American who sympathizes with their plight and see how well you do. Hopefully they won't chop your head off because you don't pray the right way or beat your women properly. Tell them you think the Israeli's bombed the Liberty deliberately and I'll bet with that they'll welcome you with open arms.
 

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This is all an attempt of their leaders to take their populations focus away from the continuing and worsening dismal economic situation. Now their starving and repressed population hear's that we can be "friends" and they can have a successful economy if their leaders go bye bye. When will the riots in that cesspool start? We need to step back and watch it happen, and maybe say they made a mistake when we let them take out a few more drones, which gives away their air defense locations and capabilities, and tells us that those drones need countermeasure capabilities and/or protection. Looks like a free use of a test range!

Islamic Republic of Iran Air Defense Force - Wikipedia

Arrow Missile Intercepts Syrian SAM Fired At Israeli Jets Following Strikes
 
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calsdad

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I admitted (and agree) that we invaded Iraq believing that there were weapons of Mass destruction which was a mistake. I preferred the path of sanctions that you (erroneously) claim cost half a million lives (as if the US were to blame not the brutal dictator)... but a brutal dictator doesn't care about sanctions because he just takes it out on his subjects. And I'm not calling for war with Iran (in fact I praised Trump's restraint in calling off the attack today because it wasn't justifiable compared to the offense that Iran (may have) committed. What I'm saying is that war will be inevitable because the leaders of Iran are showing the same reckless course that other extreme Islamic dictators have shown. I'm also saying that this reckless path is within our sphere of influence because it impacts the world and its economy and security. It's not something that we can dismiss as an "over there" problem thousands of miles away. And when these dictators of state sponsored terrorism do get overthrown I say F them. I'm also saying (repeatedly) that bringing up the Liberty incident from 50+ years ago (where Israel admitted blame, apologized, and made reparations) is irrelevant to any of this discussion.
"We" didn't invade Iraq "believing there were weapons of mass destruction".

That was a story pushed to legitimize that whole clusterphuck - and a large enough part of the dumbass population believed it that they got enough support to go ahead with the invasion.

There was a significant amount of people who thought the WMD story was BS and said so at the time. They were told to STFU - by a large crowd of low information voters. This same crowd stuck with their low information view of the world and a number of years later started crying when ISIS came around and somehow believed that "we" (the US) was under some sort of significant threat by that group. I guess I missed the stories about how ISIS Bear bombers were cruising up and down the East coast and ISIS nuclear ballistic missile subs had been caught shadowing US navy task forces.

The facts are that the invasion of Iraq was something dreamed about by the Neocons that held significant positions of power in multiple US administrations - and had been talked about and planned in detail long before 9/11 ever occurred. It's that little tidbit of knowledge that has led many people to believe that 9/11 was a setup job just like a whole bunch of other "historical" incidents that preceded the US (and other countries for that matter) - coming up with the pretense to go to war.

It's actually comical to listen to an awful lot of of right wingers - who bitch endlessly about how the US should support Israel and also get into war after war in the Mideast - and who followed this neocon crowd like faithful puppy dogs - and who also dutifully pay their NRA membership dues and complain about how lefties are "subverting the Republic" and "taking away ma Consteetutional rights!!"

You dumbasses were told a LONG TIME AGO - "stay the phuck out of foreign wars" (paraphrase). And you were also told " a Republic if you can keep it". Instead what the typical normie-con and boomer-con has done to this country is work hand in hand with the lefties to completely bury the Republic in a grave so deep it's likely never going to climb out. Worse yet - there's probably a VERY good chance that because this whole country as it's currently assembled - is going to go tits up which will likely lead to nice Yugoslavian style civil war - and you'll lose all those guns rights (and a whole bunch of other things ) as a result of that.

The inability of the of the right to actually adhere to the discipline that is required to keep a constitutional Republic of the form we were given - has worked side by side with the communist machinations of left to actively subvert it - so that the end result is we're likely going to completely lose what we currently understand to be "these United States"

The wars that the right wing has actively supported - are a HUGE component of why this has happened.

That's why I have little to no patience for all of this " how could we have known !? " BS I hear so much lately coming out of people's mouths in regards to the Iraq and Afghani wars.

You SHOULD HAVE KNOWN - and YOU WERE TOLD, and you went ahead and did it anyway.
 

SHOCKNAWE

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The only war that is worth fighting as far as I can see at this moment is the one that is needed to flush out all the illegals and gangbanging ghetto sewer dwellers that have infiltrated US cities as we speak. Let’s go city to city and deal with this shit, I’m talking one order to comply and get in the bus or get shot and bagged up. Warehouse every one of these pieces of shit and then airlift them back to the shithole they came from.
 
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jpk

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War with Iran isn't inevitable. We are the ones trying to pick a fight with them. The biggest advocates for war with Iran are the same people who wanted us to invade Iraq. Seems a little strange? Israel and the various Jewish lobbies want us to attack Iran, just like Iraq. While we will never know every detail about the Liberty attack, the evidence and eye witness accounts from US naval personnel make it pretty clear that Israel deliberately attack the ship. Point being with friends like Israel, who needs enemies? We were on friendly terms with the Muslim world prior to 1948 when Israel was formed. Our financial and military support for Israel motivates terrorist groups and many Muslim countries to hate us.
Clearly you dont understand the Shia/Sunni conflict if you think that Isreal is the biggest advocate for invasion/retaliation against Iran.

You also obviously forget that a large swath of muslims from the balkans and middle east sided with Hitler and the Nazi's in WWII

The 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar was only one example of muslim military groups that fought for the Nazi's
 
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