1. If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

  2. Dismiss Notice

Urgent help needed: "other dangerous weapon" and OC spray

Discussion in 'Massachusetts Laws' started by M1911, Mar 13, 2019 at 2:32 PM.

  1. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    37,917
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Near Framingham
    Folks: I urgently need help on this. It is my understanding that the phrase "other dangerous weapon" in MGL Chapter 269 Section 10j has been ruled by MA courts to include OC spray. I urgently need a legal reference on this.
     
    AHM likes this.

  2. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    13,477
    Likes Received:
    4,135
    Location:
    Somewhere in the sands of time
    Can't help, not a lawyer. Subbed
     
  3. Whiskeywon

    Whiskeywon NES Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    318
    Location:
    Western Massachusetts
    Safe assumpsion is yes, especially given MA’s previous restrictions on the item (FID and what not) and how it can still “only be used in self defense.” But hopefully @Len-2A Training or someone similar can shine some light on it.
     
  4. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    37,917
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Near Framingham
    What I need is something written by a court that is public and can be provided to an individual.
     
  5. andrew1220

    andrew1220 NES Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    10,119
    Likes Received:
    2,358
    Location:
    Glostah
  6. Palladin

    Palladin NES Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    23,177
    Likes Received:
    4,678
    Location:
    Merrimack Valley
  7. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    49,992
    Likes Received:
    7,090
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    BCPD regularly prosecuted and won these cases. Problem is that District Court cases aren't documented outside the courthouse. The BCPD prosecutor has been retired for a while. He's a personal friend and source of my info.
     
  8. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    37,917
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Near Framingham
    We found a 2018 decision.
     
    cockpitbob, drgrant and Chevy 2 65 like this.
  9. Chevy 2 65

    Chevy 2 65 NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    13,477
    Likes Received:
    4,135
    Location:
    Somewhere in the sands of time
    Can you share it here? or PM?
     
  10. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    37,917
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Near Framingham
    PM your email to me.
     
  11. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    49,992
    Likes Received:
    7,090
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    There's a big legal difference between mere possession on a school property and using it to actually threaten or commit a battery with it. BCPD was prosecuting possession.

    I'd also like the case reference if it didn't involve an assault. I'll send my Email address by PM.
     
  12. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    37,917
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Near Framingham
    The case does involve an assault. However, the court holds that OC is a dangerous weapon per se, so I think that effectively covers possession.
     
  13. swatgig

    swatgig NES Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    2,491
    Location:
    Chained together with 999 of my associates at the
    COMMONWEALTH vs. WYNTON W., 459 Mass. 745 (2011)

    This court concluded that the phrase "dangerous weapon," as it is used in G. L.c. 269, § 10(j) (prohibiting the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon on the grounds of any school, college, or university), must be interpreted as incorporating the common-law definition of that phrase, i.e., those objects that are dangerous per se (designed for the purpose of bodily assault or defense) and those things that become dangerous weapons because they are used in a dangerous fashion.

    Commonwealth v. Lord, 55 Mass. App. Ct. 265, 269 n.6, & 271 (2002) (although not included in § 10 (b), chemical mace is per se "dangerous weapon" under common law)

    WYNTON W., COMMONWEALTH vs., 459 Mass. 745
     
    M1911 likes this.
  14. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    37,917
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Near Framingham
    COMMONWEALTH v. Anthony D. WALCOTT.

    17–P–461

    Appeals Court of Massachusetts.

    Entered: February 8, 2018

    That decision covered mace and it happened before the law was changed to legalize carrying defensive sprays without a license. This is a 2018 decision that explicitly covers carrying OC spray.

     
    swatgig likes this.
  15. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    37,917
    Likes Received:
    5,148
    Location:
    Near Framingham
    Email sent.
     
  16. nstassel

    nstassel NES Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    1,988
    Location:
    Middlesex County
    I'm curious too. Commonwealth v. Wynton W., 459 Mass. 745, 947 N.E.2d 561 (2011) says 10(j) includes weapons defined by the common law as dangerous weapons, capable of inflicting death or great bodily injury, or are designed for bodily assault or defense. The Lord decision suggests that mace or oc sprays are dangerous weapons by that definition.
     
  17. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    49,992
    Likes Received:
    7,090
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    Sadly those cases set the groundwork to convict on mere possession. Very bad but not surprising for Mass Marsupial Courts. Thanks for the cites, they correlate with what I've been telling students and NES'rs for years. I would have preferred to have been wrong and over cautious.
     
  18. terraformer

    terraformer NES Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    16,788
    Likes Received:
    2,146
    Hell, 10(j) criminalizes spitballs... Read the definition of firearm. It covers Nerf, Airsoft, BB and frankly spit balls. You can bet your ass anything remotely dangerous is covered.
     
  19. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    49,992
    Likes Received:
    7,090
    Location:
    Escaping to NH
    Yup, in today's world all of us that took high school chemistry would be felons. Glass bending and subsequent spitballing was commonplace. Nobody made a big deal about it . . . back then.
     
  20. AHM

    AHM NES Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,527
    Likes Received:
    1,621
    (None of the following may add anything to the replies in this thread, but...)
    if you had a nagging feeling you'd read about this previously on NES;
    that's because you did read about it previously on NES:


    Scroll back and forth for the full thread, of course.
    (Against all odds) hope this helps.
     

Share This Page