Urban Legend? Man arrested in Hyannis for telling thugs he had a gun?

[Chuck]

Hi,
I googled and searched here but can't find anything on this. I've been told this story so many times I was about ready to call it fact. But, I like to check things first.

The story was a guy and his date were walking in Hyannis when some thugs started to harass them. It got bad enough the guy told them he was armed. They backed off -- but then told a cop there was a guy with a gun walking down the street. Story continues that he was tried and convicted and that we, legal gun owners, now have to deal with case-law that says you can give no verbal warning.

True or Not True? Newspaper article anyone?

thanks,
Chuck

 

[jhblaze1]

sounds like horseshit to me.

 

[not new guy]

Why would a gang of thugs go running to the cops to report a guy (they were harassing) who claimed to have a gun?

 

[PaulR]

Apparently I need to start, err stop carrying when I go on vacation now.


I would ping the guys at Cape Cod Gun Works, they're in Hyannis and probably know for certain.

 

[GM-GUY]

Why would a gang of thugs go running to the cops to report a guy (they were harassing) who claimed to have a gun?

Because it's Massachusetts and they are the protected class.

 

[Shark_Cage]

Sounds like a typical story you hear at a gun shop.

 

[babygorilla]

How can saying you have a gun be means for a conviction? 1st amendment much? Threatening bodily harm is one issue, making a statement is another, whether that statement is true or not. Think it through.....

 

[Waher]

A verbal threat is assault in MA and a person could implicate themselves speaking to the authorities in questioning. But I doubt criminals would complain or be taken seriously by cops unless it was one of their own punk kids.

 

[M1911]

Why would a gang of thugs go running to the cops to report a guy (they were harassing) who claimed to have a gun?

It has happened before.

 

[usp45ct]

I don't necessarily believe it, but I would not be shocked if it turned out to be true.

 

[milktree]

Why would a gang of thugs go running to the cops to report a guy (they were harassing) who claimed to have a gun?

They probably (would have) said something like, "there's a guy down there with a gun!" or "... who threatened us with a gun!"

They probably left out the "...we were harassing..." part.

 

[terraformer]

But I doubt criminals would complain or be taken seriously by cops unless it was one of their own punk kids.

Bull. They know the system better than anyone. They do it all of the time. More than one NESr has had issues with this. Some have moved away after being charged (and eventually had the stalemate end in dismissal by the judge) by the cops for threatening a criminals life when it was them who were threatened. I can stress this enough, self-defense is a defense, not a negation of the crime and MA ADAs abuse that every chance they get.

 

[oilspill]

Just the other day an off duty cop pulled one in a 'road rage' incident:

http://hyannisnews.com/developing-o...mily-hyannis-news-barnstable-police-cape-cod/

 

[RKG]

A verbal threat is assault in MA and a person could implicate themselves speaking to the authorities in questioning. But I doubt criminals would complain or be taken seriously by cops unless it was one of their own punk kids.

The first statement is not legally correct.

Last I looked, simple assault in Massachusetts is a common law crime, and at common law the elements of assault were a threat to commit an unlawful battery coupled with some action demonstrating that the threatened battery was real and iminent. Now, hypotheticals are difficult to deal with if they are vague, but the stated premise is that the person in question stated to others, "I am armed." That, by itself, is not a threat to commit anything, much less an unlawful battery. And, in fact, the SJC has recently opined that if someone is frightened by learning that someone else is lawfully carrying a firearm, that's just too bad.

So, it is unlikely in the extreme that the stated incident occurred. If some incident did occur, there had to be a lot more to it than what has been specified.

 

[drgrant]

Why would a gang of thugs go running to the cops to report a guy (they were harassing) who claimed to have a gun?

Because"dindu nuffins" do this kind of horseshit all the time when they get "caught" but didn't complete the crime in question... but this claim sounds somewhat bogus.

-Mike

 

[Rob Boudrie]

But I doubt criminals would complain or be taken seriously by cops unless it was one of their own punk kids.

Depends on how important the punk's family is.

 

[MGnoob]

Who says "i have a gun"... pretty stupid thing to do.

 

[drgrant]

But I doubt criminals would complain or be taken seriously by cops unless it was one of their own punk kids.

You would be surprised- there are lots of criminals who will try to "flip the table" on you if they get caught in the middle of attempting to do something. Plenty of self defense no shoots and similar have turned into a world of shit for the defender because the bad guy called the cops first and told them a swan song about how a man pointed a gun at them, etc.

-Mike

 

[amm5061]

You would be surprised- there are lots of criminals who will try to "flip the table" on you if they get caught in the middle of attempting to do something. Plenty of self defense no shoots and similar have turned into a world of shit for the defender because the bad guy called the cops first and told them a swan song about how a man pointed a gun at them, etc.

-Mike

And that's why you call the cops immediately if you have to draw. The one who calls first is the victim in their eyes. Repeat after me: "I was in fear for my life."

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Bull. They know the system better than anyone. They do it all of the time. More than one NESr has had issues with this. Some have moved away after being charged (and eventually had the stalemate end in dismissal by the judge) by the cops for threatening a criminals life when it was them who were threatened. I can stress this enough, self-defense is a defense, not a negation of the crime and MA ADAs abuse that every chance they get.

It is not an exaggeration to conclude that an induhvidual (spelling from DNRC) involved in a no shots fired incident in which they use a gun for self defense in MA is generally better off if the aggressor and is never identified.

 

[JAD]

The first statement is not legally correct.

Last I looked, simple assault in Massachusetts is a common law crime, and at common law the elements of assault were a threat to commit an unlawful battery coupled with some action demonstrating that the threatened battery was real and iminent. Now, hypotheticals are difficult to deal with if they are vague, but the stated premise is that the person in question stated to others, "I am armed." That, by itself, is not a threat to commit anything, much less an unlawful battery. And, in fact, the SJC has recently opined that if someone is frightened by learning that someone else is lawfully carrying a firearm, that's just too bad.

So, it is unlikely in the extreme that the stated incident occurred. If some incident did occur, there had to be a lot more to it than what has been specified.

I agree with you that the statement as to the elements of assault- which either requires an attempted battery (e.g. taking a swing without punching) or an immediately/imminently threatened battery- which requires that the assailant intentionally made the victim fearful by engaging in some sort of conduct that would make them believe that they about to be battered. Based on caselaw history it is possible for words to potentially rise to the level of imminent threat- if "they put the other in reasonable apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contactwith his person" [Commonwealth v. Delgado, 1975] As a non-attorney, my belief is that it would be very dependent on circumstance.

As to your other comment, regarding the SJC and an individual freightened by lawful carry. I believe that you are referring to Simkin. Bear in mind that in that case the frightened individual learned that Simkin was armed because he informed so as to avoid freighting her (i.e. if the weapon became visible when disrobing for the medical exam). That sounds factually distinguishable from making a flippant remark to person with whom individual had engaged in some sort of altercation or tumultuous situation with in a public place, where the individuals actions could be so construed as to have intended an effect (even if similar to another individual's actions which were intended not to create an effect. This is especially true when one considers that assault is not the only charge that might be applicable. Other charges that could be considered might be Disorderly Conduct or Disturbing the Peace either in violation of MGL c. 272 s. 53.

 

[Nick Fury]

I notice its always the same individuals who cannot imagine anyone using the law against another. Cannot fathom being jammed up for no reason. Believe the court system protects from any and all injustice. Even usually feel any interaction with police was probably warrented. So my question is how does one achive this level of ignorant bliss?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So my question is how does one achive this level of ignorant bliss?

By growing up white middle class.

Remember the Ed Messe line - "If you haven't done something you aren't a suspect" (or something pretty close to that).

 

[Spanz]

 

[sig shooter]

You would be surprised- there are lots of criminals who will try to "flip the table" on you if they get caught in the middle of attempting to do something. Plenty of self defense no shoots and similar have turned into a world of shit for the defender because the bad guy called the cops first and told them a swan song about how a man pointed a gun at them, etc.

-Mike

+1 Criminals are cunning con artists that will tell a sob story and have an unsuspecting victim believe it. Sociopaths and have no remorse or humanity, some are so convincing they can pass polygraphs.

 

[Fixxah]

Two can keep a secret if the other one is dead. Dead men tell no tales if there is no dna and you use gloves and gorilla tape. I kid...

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Two can keep a secret if the other one is dead. Dead men tell no tales if there is no dna and you use gloves and gorilla tape. I kid...

Gorilla tape can do an excellent job of preserving fingerprints, stray hairs, DNA samples, etc.

 

[GPP]

This is in my top 3 of most ridiculous NES discussions of all time. The OP bowled a strike on this one, encompassing speculation, conjecture, heresay, and SWAGs in the first post. Both Delgado and Simkins have been mentioned, though their relevance here is unquestionably questionable. Well done.