Update on Blended Learning

[MisterHappy]

Not precisely germane to the NRA thing, but: The last Hunter Ed class we did was Blended. Previously, we had about 10% of the class ace the test. This time we had none. Almost everyone did pass, though.

When grading the tests, we track the wrong answers, to determine weak spots - 50% of the class got a question on the correct propellant for a "primitive firearm" wrong. Obviously, there was a lack.

When we do the NRA BP or HE course, live, if the Instructor at the front of the room mis-speaks, or omits something, the others can chime in to clarify, or amplify.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I suspect that the NRA solution will completely ignore the "money" issue, and pretend that cutting the org in for $60 a head is not a fundamental part of the problem.

In other words, they will rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic.

 

[Knob Creek]

I agree with Len and Rob. The new blended course overly complicates the entire process. All of which is moot because it is still not on the official published LTC course list.

I finally broke down and ran my first modified Home Firearm Safety course. This is the only viable option for most instructors.

I think I'm going down this road also. Do the Home Forearm Safety to satisfy the Mass requirement and some version of Basic Pistol for some practical experience.

 

[tcarter01]

I agree with Len and Rob. The new blended course overly complicates the entire process. All of which is moot because it is still not on the official published LTC course list.

I finally broke down and ran my first modified Home Firearm Safety course. This is the only viable option for most instructors.

Same here. While NRA cert'd for both HFS & BP, I simply upped the HFS to include live fire as well as more time on actual hands on use with the firearm. Added benefit is we also get to add in some rifle exposure as well. For the MSP requirement for LTC apps...works well IMHO...

 

[szaino]

When I got the HFS course booklet, I realized that 99% of the HFS is covered in the basic pistol class.

Redoing my course teaching outline for the modified HFS class only took 2 minutes.

 

[Jbarila]

The problem I am having now is our club is running an instructor class. The NRA is requiring each student to take the online basic pistol class and the classroom class to become instructors. Their reason. "You cant teach it if you haven't taken it". Such BS.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The NRA is requiring each student to take the online basic pistol class and the classroom class to become instructors. Their reason. "You cant teach it if you haven't taken it". Such BS.

More likely "we need a $60 cut of the action from each of you".

 

[yanici]

If you read my previous posts on this, you'll see that I ain't a happy camper on this subject. As much as I want to, I just can't bring myself to renew my NRA membership this time. It expires next month. I've got 1-1/2 years left on my BP cert. and I might as well burn it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The problem I am having now is our club is running an instructor class. The NRA is requiring each student to take the online basic pistol class and the classroom class to become instructors. Their reason. "You cant teach it if you haven't taken it". Such BS.

I actually agree with them that if you haven't taken the Phase I BP you have no idea what your students are supposed to know coming into your Phase II class.

At least for a while they allowed those of us already certified in BP to take it online for free, this was during the roll-out and I doubt that it is still available.

I agree charging the instructor candidate the full $60 is over the top, but when you realize that NRA is "all about the money" it is understandable that they did it this way.

Should be interesting to see what Rev. 2.0 looks like. I'm certain that it will NOT be a roll-back to the old BP class.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I actually agree with them that if you haven't taken the Phase I BP you have no idea what your students are supposed to know coming into your Phase II class.

At least for a while they allowed those of us already certified in BP to take it online for free, this was during the roll-out and I doubt that it is still available.

I agree charging the instructor candidate the full $60 is over the top, but when you realize that NRA is "all about the money" it is understandable that they did it this way.

Should be interesting to see what Rev. 2.0 looks like. I'm certain that it will NOT be a roll-back to the old BP class.

As an instructor, I never went online and took the online portion when it was rolled out. Should I have done so to maintain my credentials? I don't really teach BP, I do HFS instead.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As an instructor, I never went online and took the online portion when it was rolled out. Should I have done so to maintain my credentials? I don't really teach BP, I do HFS instead.

If you were certified to teach BP when it rolled out, you should have taken it (it was painful). NRA never said that you had to to maintain your rating however.

I understand from Rick that new BP candidates are made to take Phase I and pay for it to NRA.

 

[Garys]

The NRA seems to be following the pattern set by the American Heart Association five or so years ago. In that case, the AHA took all of the discretion out of the courses. The instructors load canned DVDs into a computer, play them, stop when the DVD tells them to. All the instructors do is the practical sessions and proctor the exams. Oh, and collect the money. Most of which goes back to the AHA.

The AHA even mandated the every student have a text book even if they didn't need it.

Every instructor hates it and so do most of the students.

 

[M1911]

The problem I am having now is our club is running an instructor class. The NRA is requiring each student to take the online basic pistol class and the classroom class to become instructors. Their reason. "You cant teach it if you haven't taken it". Such BS.

While the Blended Learning fiasco is just that -- a fiasco -- this is something I believe in. You shouldn't teach a class until you've taken it.


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[Rob Boudrie]

You shouldn't teach a class until you've taken it.

It's more important not to teach a class until you have mastered the subject matter and understand the curriculum. This does not always mean taking the specific class.

Do you really think that every med school professor (often practicing MDs) have taken the exact classes they are teaching? If not, are you suggesting that they take the class first?

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's more important not to teach a class until you have mastered the subject matter and understand the curriculum. This does not always mean taking the specific class.

Do you really think that every med school professor (often practicing MDs) have taken the exact classes they are teaching? If not, are you suggesting that they take the class first?

Rob,

In this case since you are teaching the tail end of the course, it helps to understand what the student is expected to know.

I've read tons of comments here and elsewhere claiming that the instructor meets the student at the range and merely administers the shooting test. Although I haven't taught the blended course (and have no intention of doing so), what I've learned by going over the material (Phase II) . . . I just took another look before completing this post . . . there are 4 lessons we manage with the student, totaling 5 hours (this does NOT include any MA law material) which includes both classroom and range work.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

In this case since you are teaching the tail end of the course, it helps to understand what the student is expected to know.

There is a difference between the instructor having all course materials, vs. "taking the course". My wife is a professor and while she always has all the course slides (sometimes she creates them), she is never required to enroll as a student or pay student tuition so that she will always have "been a student in each class she is teaching". The NRA could easily just tell instructors to review the slides but that would deprive the org of $60 a head.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Rob,

NRA protects their IP. We could view the slides online in sequence only, but not DL them. We don't get the books unless we pay for the course, we don't see the student test to get their token to take Phase II with us either.

For the instructor the whole setup sucks.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

If you were certified to teach BP when it rolled out, you should have taken it (it was painful). NRA never said that you had to to maintain your rating however.

I understand from Rick that new BP candidates are made to take Phase I and pay for it to NRA.

Gotcha. I never took it because that isn't what I teach, I just wanted to make sure that I didn't screw anything up! Thanks!

 

[szaino]

Rob,

NRA protects their IP. We could view the slides online in sequence only, but not DL them. We don't get the books unless we pay for the course, we don't see the student test to get their token to take Phase II with us either.

For the instructor the whole setup sucks.

When running a modified (for basic pistol) HFS course I would like the students to have a good reference book. The NRA HFS booklet isn't that great.

Any off the shelf basic pistol books available out there?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

For the instructor the whole setup sucks.

The free market will take care of this.

 

[browncoat]

The free market will take care of this.

Yeah, I'm wondering if there needs to be a completely separate organization dedicated to training. The NRA seems kind of fractured in purpose at times, maybe they should just focus on NRA-ILA.

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[Mesatchornug]

Maybe they should focus on NRA. Then the SAF and NSSF can focus on legal, and the ILA can fully split to focus on lobbying.

Or maybe Appleseed can be the nationally renowned training organization. At least they seem to care about teaching people to shoot more than about making money.

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[bostonasphalt2]

The free market will take care of this.

The "free market will fix this" won't help us in MA unfortunately. With mandatory licensing and class requirement to get that license, plus the climate of this state, we aren't part of that "free market" the way we would hope unfortunately

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The "free market will fix this" won't help us in MA unfortunately. With mandatory licensing and class requirement to get that license, plus the climate of this state, we aren't part of that "free market" the way we would hope unfortunately

While the MSP currently has certification of new classes on hold, the gates should eventually open up and more non-NRA courses will no doubt get certified. The trick will get getting MSP "instructor status" without the NRA credential (the most common way to prove one is qualified).

Note that there is nothing in the statute that requires the licensing course be NRA endorsed.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

While the MSP currently has certification of new classes on hold, the gates should eventually open up and more non-NRA courses will no doubt get certified. The trick will get getting MSP "instructor status" without the NRA credential (the most common way to prove one is qualified).

Note that there is nothing in the statute that requires the licensing course be NRA endorsed.

Yeah but that's a lot of hoping that things shake out a certain way. The easiest credential to get is the NRA one, and I'd venture that the overwhelming majority of instructors out there who teach people for their LTC are NRA instructors.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The free market will take care of this.

Indications are that it already has . . . BP offering have ground almost to a halt everywhere and NRA isn't seeing any money coming in that way.

Yeah, I'm wondering if there needs to be a completely separate organization dedicated to training. The NRA seems kind of fractured in purpose at times, maybe they should just focus on NRA-ILA.

No, most don't understand that NRA is not a monolithic org. NRA-ILA, NRA, NRA Education Programs, etc. are separate and distinct corporations, some are lobbying orgs, some are non-profits, depending on their mission.

While the MSP currently has certification of new classes on hold, the gates should eventually open up and more non-NRA courses will no doubt get certified. The trick will get getting MSP "instructor status" without the NRA credential (the most common way to prove one is qualified).

Note that there is nothing in the statute that requires the licensing course be NRA endorsed.

Rumors have it that MSP may require instructor candidates to take a course in MA gun law ($$ for state) to qualify to teach. That may reduce the number of MSP certified instructors too. Beyond that they may disallow teaching non-shooting courses for certificates. Eventually we'll find out what shoe drops on our heads next.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Eventually we'll find out what shoe drops on our heads next.

I think you meant steel toed boot.

My prediction is that the NRA instructor rating will remain the most common way to qualify for the MSP cert, however, that does not mean those instructors have to teach the NRA classes instead of some alternative.

 

[Knob Creek]

In the past quite often I would teach the Home Firearms Safety along with the Basic Pistol over two days. I thought this gave the best experience for the student. Not sure where we go from here.

 

[yanici]

In the past quite often I would teach the Home Firearms Safety along with the Basic Pistol over two days. I thought this gave the best experience for the student. Not sure where we go from here.

Is there much difference between the old BP course and the Home course, outside of the live shooting? I would imagine that the classroom work would be quite similar. I've only taught BP.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Is there much difference between the old BP course and the Home course, outside of the live shooting? I would imagine that the classroom work would be quite similar. I've only taught BP.

I haven't touched BP in a while, but doesn't it go through the actual mechanics of different shooting stances, etc?