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Update. Framingham licensing

Quick update all:

Seems the issue was with staffing at Framingham PD. They assigned a single officer to handle the process and due to the change in laws last year, an in person interview was mandatory and they did not have enough people to accommodate it.

Comm2A has been notified that Framingham is resuming interviews Monday.

If this does not take place, please let us know.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
Quick update all:

Seems the issue was with staffing at Framingham PD. They assigned a single officer to handle the process and due to the change in laws last year, an in person interview was mandatory and they did not have enough people to accommodate it.

Comm2A has been notified that Framingham is resuming interviews Monday.

If this does not take place, please let us know.
Click to expand...
what was the change in the law, that requires an in-person interview?

ETA: Never mind, I google-fu'd it:


Interesting. Prior to this, to the best of my knowledge, Framingham applicants' only "interview" was with the photo/prints person, which was generally about the weather.


Thanks for the update.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
Quick update all:

Seems the issue was with staffing at Framingham PD. They assigned a single officer to handle the process and due to the change in laws last year, an in person interview was mandatory and they did not have enough people to accommodate it.

Comm2A has been notified that Framingham is resuming interviews Monday.

If this does not take place, please let us know.
Click to expand...
I appreciate Comm2a reaching out to them, basically the "letter" idea worked.

But I will point out a couple bits of BS from FPD. They have had a full time Licensing Officer going back decades, and that department also has a full time administrative assistant. There was no staffing issue and they didn't assign anyone new.
FPD has been requiring in person interviews since at least the late 80s. What that interview consisted of varied but they were doing them for everyone.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
Quick update all:

Seems the issue was with staffing at Framingham PD. They assigned a single officer to handle the process and due to the change in laws last year, an in person interview was mandatory and they did not have enough people to accommodate it.

Comm2A has been notified that Framingham is resuming interviews Monday.

If this does not take place, please let us know.
Click to expand...
Great work! hopefully the op's buddy gets wind of this! and the op appreciates your helping him out!
 
MisterHappy said:
what was the change in the law, that requires an in-person interview?

ETA: Never mind, I google-fu'd it:


Interesting. Prior to this, to the best of my knowledge, Framingham applicants' only "interview" was with the photo/prints person, which was generally about the weather.


Thanks for the update.
Click to expand...
Specifically:
SECTION 7. Subsection (d) of said section 131 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out the first paragraph and inserting in place thereof the following paragraph:-
A person residing or having a place of business within the jurisdiction of the licensing authority or any law enforcement officer employed by the licensing authority or any person residing in an area of exclusive federal jurisdiction located within a city or town may submit to the licensing authority or the colonel of state police an application for a license to carry firearms, or renewal of the same, which the licensing authority or the colonel shall issue if it appears that the applicant is neither a prohibited person nor determined to be unsuitable to be issued a license as set forth in this section, provided that upon an initial application for a license to carry firearms, the licensing authority shall conduct a personal interview with the applicant.
Click to expand...


42! said:
I appreciate Comm2a reaching out to them, basically the "letter" idea worked.
But I will point out a couple bits of BS from FPD. They have had a full time Licensing Officer going back decades, and that department also has a full time administrative assistant. There was no staffing issue and they didn't assign anyone new. FPD has been requiring in person interviews since at least the late 80s. What that interview consisted of varied but they were doing them for everyone.
Click to expand...
So, nothing changed with staffing or procedures, other than a wakeup call to be more timely?
 
Broc said:
And hopefully the OP and his buddy send some money to COMM2A.

@Sparky1911
Click to expand...
Since OP basically called Comm2A a liar and demanded to see the receipt of an email that wasn’t even addressed to him, which Comm2A readily supplied nonetheless, it’s only fair now for OP @Sparky1911 to provide proof of the thousands of dollars he has allegedly donated to Comm2A.
 
The Anchor said:
Great work! hopefully the op's buddy gets wind of this! and the op appreciates your helping him out!
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
42! said:
I appreciate Comm2a reaching out to them, basically the "letter" idea worked.

But I will point out a couple bits of BS from FPD. They have had a full time Licensing Officer going back decades, and that department also has a full time administrative assistant. There was no staffing issue and they didn't assign anyone new.
FPD has been requiring in person interviews since at least the late 80s. What that interview consisted of varied but they were doing them for everyone.
Click to expand...
I’m with 42.
Ironic how nothing changed. Still one guy and an assistant, no added staff, same people as before. Same interview process. Absolute no change.
Sounds like the letter idea worked. Or a simple call. Same difference All that could have been accomplished long ago. Just needed to come from an official organization like COMM2A not some kid.
Sad thing was , it took some a**h*** shaming them online to get anything done. I really feel if I didn’t express my feeling openly there would have been NO action. Well….I know that after reading the email that was sent to my buddy…..not enough time, these legal things take a long time…..go contact your state reps. Sorry. So in short…….
I will never donate to COMM2A again. That will not change, my opinion hasn’t changed.
exit stage left…..sparky has left the thread.
 
Sparky1911 said:
I’m with 42.
Ironic how nothing changed. Still one guy and an assistant, no added staff, same people as before. Same interview process. Absolute no change.
Sounds like the letter idea worked. Or a simple call. Same difference All that could have been accomplished long ago. Just needed to come from an official organization like COMM2A not some kid.
Sad thing was , it took some a**h*** shaming them online to get anything done. I really feel if I didn’t express my feeling openly there would have been NO action. Well….I know that after reading the email that was sent to my buddy…..not enough time, these legal things take a long time…..go contact your state reps. Sorry. So in short…….
I will never donate to COMM2A again. That will not change, my opinion hasn’t changed.
exit stage left…..sparky has left the thread.
Click to expand...


I thought you had left the thread before?
 
cams said:
I’m sure he’s just taking some time off to locate all those receipts I mentioned.
Click to expand...
I think we should all step back and take a breath. There is clearly some food for thought for both sides. Perhaps Comm2a will see that these never ending infringments, while individually small and dificult to address, are nontheless of significant concern, and a more global solution is wanted.
OP, while I agree with the sentament, you need to keep in mind that many here have been living with this BS for a long long time. So maybe take the whole thing as a learning experience.

In the end, stopping these "little" infringements state wide would be prefered. The argument could be made that gun owners are complying with what they think are unfair laws, but they have to live with the way it is. The very least the state could do is see to it that process and enforcement is consistent across the state. I would think even the ant-gun side in MA could be convinced that if someone is complying, they should all be afforded the same process.
 
42! said:
I appreciate Comm2a reaching out to them, basically the "letter" idea worked.

But I will point out a couple bits of BS from FPD. They have had a full time Licensing Officer going back decades, and that department also has a full time administrative assistant. There was no staffing issue and they didn't assign anyone new.
FPD has been requiring in person interviews since at least the late 80s. What that interview consisted of varied but they were doing them for everyone.
Click to expand...
I don't know what was historically true, but there was mention of recent loss of staff in our comms. I don't know what to believe, but that was said.
 
terraformer said:
I don't know what was historically true, but there was mention of recent loss of staff in our comms. I don't know what to believe, but that was said.
Click to expand...
I have no doubt that this is what they told you, not sure why you'd take it on face value.
Remember, PDs routinely blame the state for delays in processing LTCs, but whenever its looked into the state not only says when they were sent back to the PD, they also can provide the date they finished and sent it back (system logging is a great thing). Thus proving the PD lied.

Also, the LO position is a senior position, an Lt. Not a patrol officer, which is where FPD sees turnover. And the administrative assistant is a cushie non officer position. A typical gov drone, again, not a high turnover position. The only reason Whalen left the LO position was when it became widely known that he had been lying and he was PP the whole time.
 
I am not sure if someone from Comm2a made a phone call or did write a letter which caused Framingham PD to reverse course, but if that is the case then from my understanding of one point the OP was saying did have some merit. I certainly appreciate the good work Comm2a does for us on cases and understand they take time and need to be done strategically so as not to set bad precedent. I also understand they are volunteers with limited resources and time. But if a portion of that time can be set aside to do things like what they did in Framingham it can make a difference. Residents in Framingham certainly benefit right now and I think the Framingham PD wont be so quick to pull similar BS. While not a huge win in the court it is a win.
 
Just an FYI for those following along:
Part of the reason it is common to ask folks to begin the self-advocacy process by contacting local and state representatives is it establishes that you attempted to resolve the issue through the administrative means available to you before turning to the legal system.
There are very good reasons for this, chief among them is that it tends to look more favorable to a court if you have tried other avenues before asking the court for intervention. This way, it (generally) can't be argued that you didn't follow the proper appeal path and you are, in fact, looking to the court as a matter of last resort, not a first step. This takes away the town or city being able to tell the court that your case should be dismissed since you did not follow all administrative remedies before seeking judicial review.
This is like eating an elephant. Needs to be done one bite at a time. It is also like following the proper order of "shake, tuck, zip" because if you get things out of order there, it is not a good day for you.
 
ben1 said:
I am not sure if someone from Comm2a made a phone call or did write a letter which caused Framingham PD to reverse course, but if that is the case then from my understanding of one point the OP was saying did have some merit. I certainly appreciate the good work Comm2a does for us on cases and understand they take time and need to be done strategically so as not to set bad precedent. I also understand they are volunteers with limited resources and time. But if a portion of that time can be set aside to do things like what they did in Framingham it can make a difference. Residents in Framingham certainly benefit right now and I think the Framingham PD wont be so quick to pull similar BS. While not a huge win in the court it is a win.
Click to expand...

You know, if you donate and people like the OP donate, then COMM2A might be able to spend more time writing letters to police departments.

COMM2A has been around for a while and they have done some good stuff. They understand what is going on and I trust they spend their time where they know it will help the most.

They are not our private servants, specially to people like the OP that no matter what will talk sh*t.

The OP could also pay $150-250 (whatever it costs) for a lawyer to write to the PD, I am sure it wouldn't take more than an hour.

F*cking gun owners are some of the biggest b*tches. Dump money on stupid a** airsoft parts for their AR, complain about everything, try to tell organizations how to do their work yet can't be bothered to send money to those organizations. (This last part is not directed at you, but most gun owners in general - you people mnow who you are).
 
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Broc said:
You know, if you donate and people like the OP donate, then COMM2A might be able to spend more time writing letters to police departments.

COMM2A has been around for a while and they have done some good stuff. They understand what is going on and I trust they spend their time where they know it will help the most.

They are not our private servants, specially to people like the OP that no matter what will talk sh*t.

The OP could also pay $150-250 (whatever it costs) for a lawyer to write to the PD, I am sure it wouldn't take more than an hour.

F*cking gun owners are some of the biggest b*tches. Dump money on stupid a** airsoft parts for their AR, complain about everything, try to tell organizations how to do their work yet can't be bothered to send money to those organizations. (This last part is not directed at you, but most gun owners in general - you people mnow who you are).
Click to expand...
I don't speak for the OP but I have said, and will again say, that the issue was not about just this one instance.

If it was about money, I'll point out that I offered to pay any legal fees associated with such a letter. And while Comm2a has acknowledged my offer, they have not, at least yet, told me about any legal fees. So I assume, either they didn't have any or felt it was too little to bother.

OP didn't need to offer to pay, I did, in this thread. Should he have? I don't know his financial situation. When I was 25 I wouldn't have been able to. Sounds like a young guy, so he gets the benefit of the doubt.

And I would contribute to other efforts, but given the history such a contribution would need to be associated with a specific effort (not result, but effort). I am by far not well off, but I really don't like the idea of standing on the sidelines while the rights of others, and myself, are trampled on. And as I get older, money seems to have less importance compared to other stuff.
 
42! said:
I don't speak for the OP but I have said, and will again say, that the issue was not about just this one instance.

If it was about money, I'll point out that I offered to pay any legal fees associated with such a letter. And while Comm2a has acknowledged my offer, they have not, at least yet, told me about any legal fees. So I assume, either they didn't have any or felt it was too little to bother.

OP didn't need to offer to pay, I did, in this thread. Should he have? I don't know his financial situation. When I was 25 I wouldn't have been able to. Sounds like a young guy, so he gets the benefit of the doubt.

And I would contribute to other efforts, but given the history such a contribution would need to be associated with a specific effort (not result, but effort). I am by far not well off, but I really don't like the idea of standing on the sidelines while the rights of others, and myself, are trampled on. And as I get older, money seems to have less importance compared to other stuff.
Click to expand...
In this case, there was no need for legal intervention, even for a letter. Some of our contacts received an update from the PD after the holidays. We appreciate the offer just the same.

The reality is that there will continue to be issuing authorities that play loose and fast with the rules when there is zero meaningful consequence for their actions.

Sometimes, time and patience are needed to get the system moving, other times, it is pressure from political critters.

Legal intervention takes time. We are not opposed to investing in meaningful legal process to improve the status quo, we just need folks to understand that this is a long game with very few opportunities for instant gratification.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
we just need folks to understand that this is a long game with very few opportunities for instant gratification.
Click to expand...
Obviously, every situation is different, but I wonder if it would be helpful for COMM2A to make a post (perhaps in their sub) that explains what the process tends to look like. This look behind the curtain might help people better understand how to be an ideal plaintiff, particularly in cases like this. Then, when the next city acts up, you could point to that post and say "it looks like you're at step 2. We would love to get involved, but that's most successful if we come in around step 5. Can you help us help you?" It also might sow goodwill and make it clear you're sitting on your hands but trying to build the strongest possible case.
 
Broc said:
You know, if you donate and people like the OP donate, then COMM2A might be able to spend more time writing letters to police departments.

COMM2A has been around for a while and they have done some good stuff. They understand what is going on and I trust they spend their time where they know it will help the most.

They are not our private servants, specially to people like the OP that no matter what will talk sh*t.

The OP could also pay $150-250 (whatever it costs) for a lawyer to write to the PD, I am sure it wouldn't take more than an hour.

F*cking gun owners are some of the biggest b*tches. Dump money on stupid a** airsoft parts for their AR, complain about everything, try to tell organizations how to do their work yet can't be bothered to send money to those organizations. (This last part is not directed at you, but most gun owners in general - you people mnow who you are).
Click to expand...
For the record I do donate. I also never said they were our private servants and agree they are not. In this case while the OP brought up the issue in regards to his friend what Framingham Pd was doing was affecting all the Framingham residents, not just one person. I personally think Comm2a does a good job at what they do but as with anything there is always room for improvement and sometimes looking it at from different angles helps.

I did see the reply Comm2a had saying that you need to through the proper channels (contacting the higher ups and elected officials) prior to anything legal and their reasoning makes complete sense. I know other people in the thread told him to do this as well. While the OP said his friend felt uncomfortable doing that sometimes you need to do things outside your comfort zone.

I also only own one airsoft gun that I havent used in over a decade and have no parts that can be used on a AR from it 😀
 
northframingham said:
I have renewed my LTC through Framingham many times.
I have never had any issues and the staff have always been great with me;
including when I got my eldest son his FID, when he was a minor.
Click to expand...
That's why this thread is about new applications. Renewals have been handled status quo all along. There are other threads about wait time for renewals. Matt
Sparky1911 said:
February and they are not taking ANY NEW applications/issuing any new licenses. They are doing re-newels though.
Click to expand...
 
northframingham said:
I have renewed my LTC through Framingham many times.
I have never had any issues and the staff have always been great with me;
including when I got my eldest son his FID, when he was a minor.
Click to expand...
It looks that due to the change in the laws (referenced above), an in-person interview is required, which AFAIK, was not SOP in Framingham. When I moved in, back in the stone age, my LTC followed me. I know my son that got his ~3 years ago had none. No interview is required for renewals, as I read it.
 
It is almost like the old whack-a-mole game. You put out one fire, and another pops up somewhere else. It is almost as if someone at a higher level is "coaching" them. I wonder if Comm2A does an FOIA on all departments, looking for the words "suitable", "appointment", "denied", "delayed", "delay", "denied", "revoked", etc., maybe including the state or one of the groups that give them guidance, as one of the correspondents.
 

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