Update. Framingham licensing

[Darksideblues42]

So, you’re telling me a simple certified letter to the police chief or a city administrator saying we know what’s going on in your city and if you don’t change it we will take legal action. I think that alone might have done some good. Thank you Darkside. You have lost my donations and all the guys in my little group. Some of who are monthly donators

Not what I am saying. What I am saying is that there needs to be pressure from multiple angles to split this Gordian Knot.

Your friend should be able to report this to his elected officials so they can advocate on his behalf.

A letter from us is a possibility and is being ironed out.

How about you take a step back, take a deep breath, and direct your ire towards the folks who are doing the infringement as opposed to the folks who are trying to fight against it. Nothing good comes from rushing into the fray, we need sound legal footing to achieve meaningful results.

 

[Sparky1911]

Not what I am saying. What I am saying is that there needs to be pressure from multiple angles to split this Gordian Knot.

Your friend should be able to report this to his elected officials so they can advocate on his behalf.

A letter from us is a possibility and is being ironed out.

How about you take a step back, take a deep breath, and direct your ire towards the folks who are doing the infringement as opposed to the folks who are trying to fight against it. Nothing good comes from rushing into the fray, we need sound legal footing to achieve meaningful results.

The people’s rights were being infringed in Framingham, bottom line. Your organization takes care of these things specifically, no other organization in this state does This is your wheelhouse. Time was of the essence, you say you can’t rush into things, but this had a 3 month window. You Say these things can take a long time. Why wait then?
Why would you consider writing a letter or doing anything at this point. You weren’t!!!! Just face time for the board. You have already stated it takes a long time for this stuff so whatever you do now is meaningless And you never contacted him back. He has been checking his mail, spam ect every day…. Hoping, praying for a response.
You think politicians will take a 23 year old guy serious if he goes in and complains. Suuure they will. And then what? Have the town/Leo hate you because Framingham is a very liberal left leaning city now. Nope, he doesn’t want to do that without any back up.
I’m sure you guys to great things.
All I can go on is what I see and experience in life. We see articles ect of certain cases and donate LOTS of money to these causes. But like I said. It was an eye opener for me and my group. When SHTF in our backyard and saw what really happens, it was sad. Personally. The guys in my group that have been trying to help and talking about will no longer donate to you.
For anyone else. Do whatever you want, just know if you’re a normal dude. And this stuff happens in your town or city…..good luck. No one is coming to your rescue.

 

[Darksideblues42]

The people’s rights were being infringed in Framingham, bottom line. Your organization takes care of these things specifically, no other organization in this state does This is your wheelhouse. Time was of the essence, you say you can’t rush into things, but this had a 3 month window. You Say these things can take a long time. Why wait then?
Why would you consider writing a letter or doing anything at this point. You weren’t!!!! Just face time for the board. You have already stated it takes a long time for this stuff so whatever you do now is meaningless And you never contacted him back. He has been checking his mail, spam ect every day…. Hoping, praying for a response.
You think politicians will take a 23 year old guy serious if he goes in and complains. Suuure they will. And then what? Have the town/Leo hate you because Framingham is a very liberal left leaning city now. Nope, he doesn’t want to do that without any back up.
I’m sure you guys to great things.
All I can go on is what I see and experience in life. We see articles ect of certain cases and donate LOTS of money to these causes. But like I said. It was an eye opener for me and my group. When SHTF in our backyard and saw what really happens, it was sad. Personally. The guys in my group that have been trying to help and talking about will no longer donate to you.
For anyone else. Do whatever you want, just know if you’re a normal dude. And this stuff happens in your town or city…..good luck. No one is coming to your rescue.

Can you show where we were notified 3 months ago? We were notified a few weeks ago and have been working on the specific language.

As I said, I will check for a bounce back on my message to him. I am sure I sent the email. I will see if something happened when I am at my PC again in the morning. These things happen sometimes, technology doesn't always work.

Did he try to ask the local political leaders and the state reps? How do you know they would not take it seriously?

I had a contact tell me another town was requiring original birth certificates as proof of citizenship and would not accept passports.

I asked him to reach out to his local political representative and state reps. They responded within 48 hours and asked the Chief to explain his policy that had been litigated by Comm2A and found not lawful.

They changed their tune within a few days.

The contact was 23 years old.

So we need to do the steps in the proper order. I will see what the status of the email I sent is.

 

[42!]

That’s what these organizations are for. To help the little guys that don’t have the recourses or connections. Just my opinion

I've criticized how Comm2a selects what it does, openly in the past and directly to them both during and after my suitability issue. And quite recently too. At the same time I encourage donations and donate myself, although I'm limiting that to my Amazon Smile right now. But given that I'm now in NH, that should be no surprise. But they are the only game in town right now and they do some good.

No one from Comm2a wants to hear it, but I thinks they should do some looking at how they select what they get involved in. By staying out of anything that may pass by before a years long legal process is complete, or where the situation isn't beyond perfect, they insure that things like the extra legal requirements, the delays, and yes the abuse of suitability will continue.

In this case, a letter from a lawyer working for Comm2a, even one without a threat of legal action, might just give the PD a push to correct themselves. It just might make them think someone is watching them.

And maybe establishing a pattern of behavior in extra requirements, refusing to accept applications, and exceeding the deadline for issuing/denying, will help at some point when it does get into court.

 

[Sparky1911]

I've criticized how Comm2a selects what it does, openly in the past and directly to them both during and after my suitability issue. And quite recently too. At the same time I encourage donations and donate myself, although I'm limiting that to my Amazon Smile right now. But given that I'm now in NH, that should be no surprise. But they are the only game in town right now and they do some good.

No one from Comm2a wants to hear it, but I thinks they should do some looking at how they select what they get involved in. By staying out of anything that may pass by before a years long legal process is complete, or where the situation isn't beyond perfect, they insure that things like the extra legal requirements, the delays, and yes the abuse of suitability will continue.

In this case, a letter from a lawyer working for Comm2a, even one without a threat of legal action, might just give the PD a push to correct themselves. It just might make them think someone is watching them.

And maybe establishing a pattern of behavior in extra requirements, refusing to accept applications, and exceeding the deadline for issuing/denying, will help at some point when it does get into court.

Funny, another guy. Same sentiment.
And he even says a letter from COMM2A probably woulda done the trick. And we’re just two common idiots, not lawyers Well I can only speak for myself on the idiot thing.

 

[Sparky1911]

Can you show where we were notified 3 months ago? We were notified a few weeks ago and have been working on the specific language.

As I said, I will check for a bounce back on my message to him. I am sure I sent the email. I will see if something happened when I am at my PC again in the morning. These things happen sometimes, technology doesn't always work.

Did he try to ask the local political leaders and the state reps? How do you know they would not take it seriously?

I had a contact tell me another town was requiring original birth certificates as proof of citizenship and would not accept passports.

I asked him to reach out to his local political representative and state reps. They responded within 48 hours and asked the Chief to explain his policy that had been litigated by Comm2A and found not lawful.

They changed their tune within a few days.

The contact was 23 years old.

So we need to do the steps in the proper order. I will see what the status of the email I sent is.

It’s been a month. From the time he contacted you there was a three month window where new licenses were shut off. So waiting a month or two to start the process is too late. Let alone send a simple message back to him.
You talk like a middle aged lawyer, wealthy or well off. Been thru the system, know the ropes, know people. These things are intimidating for a young guy that knows nothing. When the few officials he has talked to have told him to pound sand. When the poliaticians in that city are anti 2a and very left leaning. Easier said than done sir.

 

[42!]

Funny, another guy. Same sentiment.
And he even says a letter from COMM2A probably woulda done the trick. And we’re just two common idiots, not lawyers Well I can only speak for myself on the idiot thing.

Trust me, my comment isn't a surprise to anyone who has read my sh@t in the past.

I was hoping to put a constructive spin on it so maybe Comm2a would take a good look at what the do and where they might be able to make more of an impact.

 

[Hoover]

I haven’t followed this closely, I’ll just add legal cases can be very time consuming and very expensive.

Emotions can get increased in contentious situations, everyone take a deep breath and realize you’re on the same side you may just have different paths to get to the same destination.

 

[Sparky1911]

So after reading this thread and arguing with me. Mr darkside finally responde to my buddy by email, only after being shamed on the forum.
He was told this 3 month window was too small, nothing we can do, go contact your state reps ect!
Thank you COMM2A. What a joke.
SAVE YOUR MINEY PEOPLE.

 

[Darksideblues42]

So after reading this thread and arguing with me. Mr darkside finally responde to my buddy by email, only after being shamed on the forum.
He was told this 3 month window was too small, nothing we can do, go contact your state reps ect!
Thank you COMM2A. What a joke.
SAVE YOUR MINEY PEOPLE.

Sparky, I had replied quite a while ago and did get a bounceback that I missed. This was likely because I was out of the country or on a plane when I tried to send the message originally.
If you friend wants to face the prospect of not getting his LTC for a few years while the case proceeds, then we can connect with an attorney.
Can you please educate us on exactly what you would do so as to get Framingham to accept applications with immediate effect? How would you force compliance AND have it all wrapped up with a nice bow before they start accepting applications again on their own accord in February?
Please be explicit and direct with your plan.
I will write a letter from Comm2A if that will make you happy. You had better guarantee it will force Framingham to start accepting applications. If you are 100% sure this is all that is needed. If you are wrong, and the letter does nothing, will you come back and apologize?

 

[42!]

I'll make a constructive suggestion:
no direct legal threat, although there certainly is some implication.
I'd actual suggest sending it, with slight modification, to all PDs who push extra lergal requirements (letters, references, etc.) as well as delays. It would deliver a message that something may be in the works, and frankly, right now is not a good time for them to be facing 2a constitutional issues. There is a lot of focus on Bruen in the courts and nobody wants to set a precedent. And if you can get them to stop the BS it may well carry forward on momentum alone.

And the question isn't "will this do any good", it's "will it cause any harm".

bla bla bla Chief of Police
City of Framingham
cc Mayor bla bla bla

It has come to our attention that the department is currently refusing to accept application for aa License to Carry Firearms (LTC), and in the past routinely went past the deadline to approve/deny an LTC, as required bt MGL <fill in the blank>.

While we understand that unusual situation may affect the normal operations of the department, refusing to accept an application is a clear violation of an individual's 2nd Amendment rights, and failing to meet the deadline is a violation of MGL. We hope this is a simple oversight and not a deliberate attempt to violate individual rights and/or the MGL.

Please address this with your licensing officer so that the situation can be immediately corrected.

In the even the department is unable to correct this, Comm2a would be remiss if we did not advise our membership of their legal options regarding this situation. We hope this will be unnecessary.

We ask that you respond withing 10 days with you intentions and thank you for you anticipated correction of this situation.


bla bla bla
bla bla Comm2a

 

[SFC13557]

Jesus, take a deep breath and stop the circle firing squad. PD's in this State have had it their way for years so "re-educating" them will take time.
Applicant needs to keep pressure on PD with follow-ups and contacting Mayor and his State Rep.
It's not his fault Framingham can't handle simple license processing; PD needs to shit or get off the pot!

 

[kalash]

"How dare these volunteer lawyers not create a pro-bono court case for me and win it in a week??"

 

[Sparky1911]

Sparky, I had replied quite a while ago and did get a bounceback that I missed. This was likely because I was out of the country or on a plane when I tried to send the message originally.
If you friend wants to face the prospect of not getting his LTC for a few years while the case proceeds, then we can connect with an attorney.
Can you please educate us on exactly what you would do so as to get Framingham to accept applications with immediate effect? How would you force compliance AND have it all wrapped up with a nice bow before they start accepting applications again on their own accord in February?
Please be explicit and direct with your plan.
I will write a letter from Comm2A if that will make you happy. You had better guarantee it will force Framingham to start accepting applications. If you are 100% sure this is all that is needed. If you are wrong, and the letter does nothing, will you come back and apologize?

WELL, at this point I would t want you doing anything and I know he doesn’t either. He is going to wait like a good servant pleb.
Again, I’m not a lawyer nor have I ever done this
But. How about doing SOMETHING…..NOT NOTHING.
Again I’m not a lawyer but how about a certified letter to the chief, city council and the mayor…saying something like we have gotten multiple complaints tha new licenses are not being issued until February, this is a breach of the 2nd amendment, please start issuing licensing, hire another officer if your backed up or else we will file legal action. AT LEAST THATS SOMETHING.
I can’t guarantee that would work. Sure better than what you did. Right?
And you’re saying that if you sent that letter that they will then close licensing for three years?
This makes me think a lot worse. A simple apology would be fine. Keep digging buddy.
How about this.
YOU SEND A COPY OF THE EMAIL YOU SENT HIM THAT GOT (sent back) with time and date. I’ll apologize and make a donation.

 

[Sparky1911]

"How dare these volunteer lawyers not create a pro-bono court case for me and win it in a week??"

Is t that what they are here for. Preserve rights for those who can’t do it alone

 

[eboos]

I must have missed the part where anyone was retained for their services.

 

[Sparky1911]

I love these comments. I’ve donated thousands to these organizations over the years. That’s thier job. That’s why they exist. If they are not going to fight for the little guy, then Why am I eating my money on them. Some of you guys are real special.

 

[Mesatchornug]

WELL, at this point I would t want you doing anything and I know he doesn’t either. He is going to wait like a good servant pleb.
Again, I’m not a lawyer nor have I ever done this
But. How about doing SOMETHING…..NOT NOTHING.
Again I’m not a lawyer but how about a certified letter to the chief, city council and the mayor…saying something like we have gotten multiple complaints tha new licenses are not being issued until February, this is a breach of the 2nd amendment, please start issuing licensing, hire another officer if your backed up or else we will file legal action. AT LEAST THATS SOMETHING.
I can’t guarantee that would work. Sure better than what you did. Right?
And you’re saying that if you sent that letter that they will then close licensing for three years?
This makes me think a lot worse. A simple apology would be fine. Keep digging buddy.
How about this.
YOU SEND A COPY OF THE EMAIL YOU SENT HIM THAT GOT (sent back) with time and date. I’ll apologize and make a donation.

It's clear you're frustrated, and that's understandable. You care about your friend, and you care about this injustice.

That part in bold? That's not what he said.

He's saying that if your friend wants to bring a case, he needs to be prepared to go the whole way. That may mean several years of appearances in courts, etc. until everything is resolved.

If he's willing to accept that delay of his rights, then it's possible for them to prepare a coordinated effort.

If he's not? Then it's likely faster to ride this part out.

 

[namedpipes]

The people’s rights were being infringed in Framingham, bottom line. Your organization takes care of these things specifically, no other organization in this state does This is your wheelhouse. Time was of the essence, you say you can’t rush into things, but this had a 3 month window. You Say these things can take a long time. Why wait then?
Why would you consider writing a letter or doing anything at this point. You weren’t!!!! Just face time for the board. You have already stated it takes a long time for this stuff so whatever you do now is meaningless And you never contacted him back. He has been checking his mail, spam ect every day…. Hoping, praying for a response.
You think politicians will take a 23 year old guy serious if he goes in and complains. Suuure they will. And then what? Have the town/Leo hate you because Framingham is a very liberal left leaning city now. Nope, he doesn’t want to do that without any back up.
I’m sure you guys to great things.
All I can go on is what I see and experience in life. We see articles ect of certain cases and donate LOTS of money to these causes. But like I said. It was an eye opener for me and my group. When SHTF in our backyard and saw what really happens, it was sad. Personally. The guys in my group that have been trying to help and talking about will no longer donate to you.
For anyone else. Do whatever you want, just know if you’re a normal dude. And this stuff happens in your town or city…..good luck. No one is coming to your rescue.

Technically your waiting period doesn't begin until you've officially applied (met with the LO). This is one of the many ways we are screwed by small people with ugly minds.

Comm2a isn't perfect, but neither is anybody else. And certainly nobody else is even considering coming to your aid. And if they were perfect it would still take time to determine the winning strategy and implement it.

Your friend is screwed, let's call it what it is. But his struggle MIGHT help the next guy have an easier time of it.

 

[Sparky1911]

Right. So now towns and city’s can stop licensing whenever they feel like as long as it’s under 6 months? No legal action Takes less than 6 months right? So the next time they push it from 3 months to 6 months. And then what constitutes getting involved. Someone you know that’s jammed up, a rich guy with pull. . Little guys like us get porked. Bottom line. I will NEVER donate again. EVER

 

[Matt_SERE]

Right. So now towns and city’s can stop licensing whenever they feel like as long as it’s under 6 months? No legal action Takes less than 6 months right? So the next time they push it from 3 months to 6 months. And then what constitutes getting involved. Someone you know that’s jammed up, a rich guy with pull. . Little guys like us get porked. Bottom line. I will NEVER donate again. EVER

A quandry fir shore.

Comm2A fights for the wronged, primarily MA, residents. They are not a lobbying body. Basically, they are reactive to the .gov trying to restrict inalienable rights. They don't go looking for fights that aren't' there. In some cases they have sought plaintiffs to go after certain cities/towns that are known problems.

For this they need funds. When Comm2A started there was a large outpouring of support from NES and others. This helped intially and has helped bank some monies so as not to have to start from scratch with each endeavor. If we all turned our backs at the onset it would have been a long time, if ever, that they wold have the reputation they have now.

Each case/action/endeavor still takes time as noted in the above posts. Everyone that has donated is doing so in hopes they never are 'the one' being personally attacked.

For the record, yes, I have a numbered Comm2A coin.

 

[free]

So after reading this thread and arguing with me. Mr darkside finally responde to my buddy by email, only after being shamed on the forum.
He was told this 3 month window was too small, nothing we can do, go contact your state reps ect!
Thank you COMM2A. What a joke.
SAVE YOUR MINEY PEOPLE.

Sounds like your "buddy" needs to find a better advocate and explainer of how life works, than you.

I wish your "buddy" well and I hope he does finally get his LTC.

 

[Hoover]

WELL, at this point I would t want you doing anything and I know he doesn’t either. He is going to wait like a good servant pleb.
Again, I’m not a lawyer nor have I ever done this
But. How about doing SOMETHING…..NOT NOTHING.
Again I’m not a lawyer but how about a certified letter to the chief, city council and the mayor…saying something like we have gotten multiple complaints tha new licenses are not being issued until February, this is a breach of the 2nd amendment, please start issuing licensing, hire another officer if your backed up or else we will file legal action. AT LEAST THATS SOMETHING.
I can’t guarantee that would work. Sure better than what you did. Right?
And you’re saying that if you sent that letter that they will then close licensing for three years?
This makes me think a lot worse. A simple apology would be fine. Keep digging buddy.
How about this.
YOU SEND A COPY OF THE EMAIL YOU SENT HIM THAT GOT (sent back) with time and date. I’ll apologize and make a donation.

The best course of action is what Comm2a is doing. If you want to go to war and get in a legal fight, you’ll probably win but that will be in 2-3 years. Courts are not quick, they are long legal fight and it takes a lot of time and money. Google George young Hawaii . Young fought Hawaii for 11 years! And only won last month.

Also, if you get in a legal fight for several years and Framingham gives your friend the license, the case is mooted and will be dismissed. That’s a way to needlessly waste a lot of money.

You say you’re not versed in these legal fights, trust the people who have been involved in these fights. They want your friend to get his license, they’re trying to go about it what they think is the the best and quickest way

 

[Sparky1911]

Sounds like your "buddy" needs to find a better advocate and explainer of how life works, than you.

I wish your "buddy" well and I hope he does finally get his LTC.

Another special one. Face the corner and put your dunce cap on. Dunce

 

[Hoover]

Right. So now towns and city’s can stop licensing whenever they feel like as long as it’s under 6 months? No legal action Takes less than 6 months right? So the next time they push it from 3 months to 6 months. And then what constitutes getting involved. Someone you know that’s jammed up, a rich guy with pull. . Little guys like us get porked. Bottom line. I will NEVER donate again. EVER

They stopped licensing in certain areas of PA, NC and CA within the past few years. Several states including MA closed gun stores. The executive and legislative branchs often are MUCH quicker than the judicial.

 

[Sparky1911]

You guys are missing all this. A simple letter to the city most likely would have solved the problem.
Keep defending an organization that is supposed to defend freedom. Then Stands by the side.
This state is truly filled with .
Please close this thread. So sad to see the ignorance in our own community. This is why we get nowhere. Our own community fighting against 2a. Fight amongst ourselves. When the focus should be on Framingham or COMM2A.

 

[kalash]

You guys are missing all this. A simple letter to the city most likely would have solved the problem.

If you're so convinced of this then why didn't you help your friend find an attorney and pay for a few hours of their time to send this letter? You seem to be under the impression that comm2a lawyers are on retainer for you. They're not.

 

[Mesatchornug]

You guys are missing all this. A simple letter to the city most likely would have solved the problem.
Keep defending an organization that is supposed to defend freedom. Then Stands by the side.
This state is truly filled with .
Please close this thread. So sad to see the ignorance in our own community. This is why we get nowhere. Our own community fighting against 2a. Fight amongst ourselves. When the focus should be on Framingham or COMM2A.

Please explain why and how a letter would cause change? Did an attorney tell you this when you reached out to him? If not, what did he say?

 

[Sparky1911]

If you're so convinced of this then why didn't you help your friend find an attorney and pay for a few hours of their time to send this letter? You seem to be under the impression that comm2a lawyers are on retainer for you. They're not.

Another wise ass. Fighting someone try to help 2a. Sorry asshat. I’m not rich either.

 

[Sparky1911]

Thanks for all the help NES. you guys are awesome. You too COMM2A. Done with this thread.
Buncha guys that already have licenses and guns. Dont give a shit about anything else. One way.
I’m done here no point responding further