UPDATE- Completed! 'Unlimited' M1 Build- Start w/ receiver or CMP Rifle?

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,787
Likes
5,415
Update Post #49


I noticed there weren't that many shooters in the Unlimited class at the New England Games, which naturally planted some seeds for perhaps building an Unlimited Garand. I'd probably need help with bedding and barrel installation / headspacing, but would enjoy doing everything else on my own. Not sure if starting from a bare receiver would be best, or bedding and re-barreling a CMP rifle would be better.

Possible to do this in some type of GI wood or is that ill advised? Not looking to muck up something collectible, I just think repro wood like Boyds is a little thick and not that interesting. Wood dimension not as critical with the receiver mounted to bedding, and a loose trigger group fit can be shimmed. Of course other areas must clear or not slap around as dimensions require.
 
Last edited:

dw617

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
1,154
Likes
379
From a cost savings perspective, this is where a Rack Grade M1 donor would come in handy.

Are you trying to build a "national match" m1 with all the bells and whistle with regard to accuracy?
 

Sweeney

NES Member
Rating - 100%
22   0   0
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
2,705
Likes
1,582
Location
MA
Toss it in a Sage International stock, Kreiger heavy barrel and an adjustable trigger from Shootingsights.
 
Last edited:

mac1911

NES Member
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,196
Likes
4,323
Toss it in a Sage International stock, Kreiger heavy barrel and an adjustable trigger from Shootingsights.
Unlimited M1 match Rifle has to adhere to the exterior dimensions of the as issued M1 service rifle.
10.5lbs max and retain a minimum of a 4.5lb trigger pull. After that it's anything goes. Even 308 versions.
Full blown NM rifle is ok as long as it stays at 10.5lbs or less so the heavy match barrels generally are not used.
All other NM mods are ok. Rule 5.2.6 in the cmp games rule book.
Also allows commercial manufactures like SA Inc to play.

You could always enter the sage stocked M1 in Match rifle at the nationals....

yikes 250$ for the trigger kit.?
 
Last edited:

Sweeney

NES Member
Rating - 100%
22   0   0
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
2,705
Likes
1,582
Location
MA
Unlimited M1 match Rifle has to adhere to the exterior dimensions of the as issued M1 service rifle.
10.5lbs max and retain a minimum of a 4.5lb trigger pull. After that it's anything goes. Even 308 versions.
Full blown NM rifle is ok as long as it stays at 10.5lbs or less so the heavy match barrels generally are not used.
All other NM mods are ok. Rule 5.2.6 in the cmp games rule book.
Also allows commercial manufactures like SA Inc to play.

You could always enter the sage stocked M1 in Match rifle at the nationals....

yikes 250$ for the trigger kit.?
Just kidding. Hmmm, my BPT built, 7.62x51, Barnett med weight barrel M1 would fit the bill.

I bet more of those triggers are purchased than the Sage stocks.
 

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,787
Likes
5,415
As mac1911 notes, I would want to be CMP Garand Unlimited compliant. The Sage stock is very cool, but I have to stick with a standard config stock. The Unlimited does open up the ability to bed, shim, and drop to .308 as mac mentioned.

Match quality barrel that's stable in the stock over the course of fire and a good trigger should be good enough for my skills, or lack thereof. With a good rifle I'm capable of extremely competitive prone scores and the rest of the course is up to me. Sitting rapids and awful hand will come with practice. Actually, if what I build would shoot as good as my CMP Special I'd be happy- it's not the rifle holding me back. The main thing would be that it's something I built and that I could have a decent score at a match.

Not sure I'd want .308, but maybe someday I'll shoot someone's so that I can tell the difference. My Varget / 168 SMK loads run pretty smooth and I've yet to have a failure with them. This winter I'll cook up some loads with Palma 155's and see how those run. Seems like .308 wouldn't make a huge difference, but I have not yet shot one...
 
Last edited:

mac1911

NES Member
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,196
Likes
4,323
As mac1911 notes, I would want to be CMP Garand Unlimited compliant. The Sage stock is very cool, but I have to stick with a standard config stock. The Unlimited does open up the ability to bed, shim, and drop to .308 as mac mentioned.

Match quality barrel that's stable in the stock over the course of fire and a good trigger should be good enough for my skills, or lack thereof. With a good rifle I'm capable of extremely competitive prone scores and the rest of the course is up to me. Sitting rapids and awful hand will come with practice. Actually, if what I build would shoot as good as my CMP Special I'd be happy- it's not the rifle holding me back. The main thing would be that it's something I built and that I could have a decent score at a match.

Not sure I'd want .308, but maybe someday I'll shoot someone's so that I can tell the difference. My Varget / 168 SMK loads run pretty smooth and I've yet to have a failure with them. This winter I'll cook up some loads with Palma 155's and see how those run. Seems like .308 wouldn't make a huge difference, but I have not yet shot one...
I think I would go 308, laminated and bedded stock and do the national match mod for the handguards and a well fitted gas system ?

maybe CMP custom shop can build a full blown National Match rifle for you......
I have the barrel and receiver wrench and pull through reamer if you want to do a barrel yourself.

I lost all my good stuff on my last PC crash but here is a start

http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/accurizingm1garand_i.asp

There is a nice old article detailing the NM handguard mods

more info that you may or may not need

https://www.mediafire.com/?9onmno58kwflx
 
Last edited:

mac1911

NES Member
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,196
Likes
4,323
Good links- thanks. A full DIY job would be fun...
mine was.... and it shoots pretty good also!
If I can find a M1 with a shot out barrel for a good price I will build out a 308, heavy laminated stock and a heavy barrel. Just need a project gun and a finish reamer in 308win
 

dw617

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
1,154
Likes
379
It would be easy, fun and well within a DIY capability to build a NM 308 Garand.

Interesting sidenote, I looked up the Unlimited Garand rules and one of the criteria can include

* M1 Garands with U. S. Government glass bedding or shims

Some usgi arsensal rebuilds, like SA, would bed the stocks during the rebuild.
 

garandman

Instructor
NES Member
Rating - 87.5%
7   1   0
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
13,841
Likes
3,875
Location
Dorchester MA / Sullivan County NH
I'd caution that building an accurized Garand is not that easy. The Army and USMC had specialist Armorers. I bought a stock set from Dean's Guns, finished it, then sent him the rifle to fit it for a Garand Match rifle. Those use GI-pattern barrels and stocks, Dean's starts with a Wenig set and does some fitting.

To go from there is a lot of work and I'm not sure the expertise is even available. There used to be a couple of Armorers at Jouster.com who posted details and answered questions.
 

mac1911

NES Member
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,196
Likes
4,323
I'd caution that building an accurized Garand is not that easy. The Army and USMC had specialist Armorers. I bought a stock set from Dean's Guns, finished it, then sent him the rifle to fit it for a Garand Match rifle. Those use GI-pattern barrels and stocks, Dean's starts with a Wenig set and does some fitting.

To go from there is a lot of work and I'm not sure the expertise is even available. There used to be a couple of Armorers at Jouster.com who posted details and answered questions.
easy no....hard no. Take some time and do a little research and find those on the forums who know a little something and anyone with some mechanical skills can figure out. Would I take on a glass bed job on a M1 for my first try....no practice on some old 22s. its amazing what a little bedding will do to some of the old 22s...

the M1 is a pretty simple design and robust. it only takes a little tweeking to improve accuracy. will your gains be huge...no not really for most M1s. although if you can get consistency out of your groups nd reduce wondering shots any improvement is good.
DGR stocks are very nice...thats what I have on my JCG as issued match gun.

The first thing you do if you have a M1 with accuracy issues is shoot it with handguards removed. if you use a rest make sure to support to the rear of the front sling swivel. I see so many people resting the front handguard on the rest and they scratch their heads to why so inconsistent
 

mac1911

NES Member
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,196
Likes
4,323
if someone told me back in 2003 or so I would be building out my own M1s, 1911s , ARs and shooting cast loads out of a M1 garand with better accuracy than M2 ball I would have laughed...

I will be working on cast loads for the AR over the winter also....
 

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,787
Likes
5,415
Bump for progress report and some more dumb questions:

Bought from a guy on CMP forums a nice condition WWII SA receiver with headspaced barrel/bolt. Barrel is a new Criterion .308. Should be more than accurate enough for me to get a great score in prone then blow it in either rapids or off-hand. [smile] Yes, I know to verify proper headspace.

I've decided that I want to build a functional National Match clone, possibly with a walnut stock from either Dupage or CMP. I'd like to complete the rifle and mess around with it at the range before sending away for bedding the stock. Timing not that critical- I want to have it complete by next September for CMP New England Games, or perhaps in the summer for Perry if I go.

Since I plan to glass bed anyway, would a GI stock in decent condition works as well as new as far as accuracy goes? I'll be unitizing / free floating per NM procedure but will leave the bedding to someone else.

So how to find rest of the parts?

I have found sources for a in-spec NM op rod, NM front sight, and NM rear sight. Beyond these, I only need serviceable parts that will function well. I guess condition of the gas cylinder would be important. I really don't want to nickle and dime myself to death over ala carte purchases is there's a better way to do it. My online searches did not find any parts kits that would work for my purpose. Any thoughts on this?

I can source a VG condition trigger assembly for $100. Fair price? If not easy enough to do a trigger job on my own I'd have it done by CMP. Very pleased with the trigger job on my 'Special'.

Refinished in spec gas cylinder from Fulton is $200. Seems like a lot to pay? Also add that to the cost of the trigger and other parts. Might it be cheaper for me to roll the dice and order a CMP FG for $630, assuming I sell the barreled receiver and stock? I figure even a so-so stock could sell for $50 or more, and the barreled receiver ~$300+ unless junk? I know the CMP FG is already a mixmaster but would prefer another parts route if cost is reasonable. Any thoughts on this appreciated..
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
14,957
Likes
8,758
Orion7 is where I would look for parts and service.......

They'll even sell you a complete rifle
 

jpk

Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
14,957
Likes
8,758
The only other person I might look to to build/service would be ted brown/shooters den......they also might be willing to see you a GC as part of a build service
 
Rating - 100%
58   0   0
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
1,153
Likes
224
Location
Wellesley, MA
If I can find a M1 with a shot out barrel for a good price I will build out a 308, heavy laminated stock and a heavy barrel. Just need a project gun and a finish reamer in 308win
I have a couple of shot out barrels (SA & H&R that gauge to 5-6ish) that I don't need. Let me know if anyone wants them.
 

mac1911

NES Member
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,196
Likes
4,323
Bump for progress report and some more dumb questions:

Bought from a guy on CMP forums a nice condition WWII SA receiver with headspaced barrel/bolt. Barrel is a new Criterion .308. Should be more than accurate enough for me to get a great score in prone then blow it in either rapids or off-hand. [smile] Yes, I know to verify proper headspace.

I've decided that I want to build a functional National Match clone, possibly with a walnut stock from either Dupage or CMP. I'd like to complete the rifle and mess around with it at the range before sending away for bedding the stock. Timing not that critical- I want to have it complete by next September for CMP New England Games, or perhaps in the summer for Perry if I go.

Since I plan to glass bed anyway, would a GI stock in decent condition works as well as new as far as accuracy goes? I'll be unitizing / free floating per NM procedure but will leave the bedding to someone else.

So how to find rest of the parts?

I have found sources for a in-spec NM op rod, NM front sight, and NM rear sight. Beyond these, I only need serviceable parts that will function well. I guess condition of the gas cylinder would be important. I really don't want to nickle and dime myself to death over ala carte purchases is there's a better way to do it. My online searches did not find any parts kits that would work for my purpose. Any thoughts on this?

I can source a VG condition trigger assembly for $100. Fair price? If not easy enough to do a trigger job on my own I'd have it done by CMP. Very pleased with the trigger job on my 'Special'.

Refinished in spec gas cylinder from Fulton is $200. Seems like a lot to pay? Also add that to the cost of the trigger and other parts. Might it be cheaper for me to roll the dice and order a CMP FG for $630, assuming I sell the barreled receiver and stock? I figure even a so-so stock could sell for $50 or more, and the barreled receiver ~$300+ unless junk? I know the CMP FG is already a mixmaster but would prefer another parts route if cost is reasonable. Any thoughts on this appreciated..
Well you know your going to pay a premium on as new parts.
Unless you have a very seasoned garand Smith checking everything you will be at the mercy of sellers or pay the premium for places like Fulton.
I don't have gas cylinder gauges so no help there.
Trigger groups can still be found for decent prices.
It could be argued that the milled trigger assembly is better?

NM op rods where gauges to a lesser minimum spec gas piston and IIRC series 77 op rods had tighter bends offering a slightly stiffer rod and less vibration.

Which is really the end goal of the NM set up. To reduce vibration and try to get
Everything to settle back in the same place or as close as possible.

So finding all the parts in one place is a challenge. Finding all parts that are as close to new is another challenge.

Stocks I would go with a wenig laminated and bed it.... DGR is a good source of wenig stocks and might even do a glass bedded job?

After all its unlimited class. 10.5lbs or less and keep the out side demensions.
Other than that a solid heavy walnut stock would fit the bill.

I think you could handle glass bedding yourself.
 
Last edited:

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,787
Likes
5,415

dw617

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
1,154
Likes
379
For the gas cylinder... they either work or not. IMO. Don't waste your money at Fulton Armory.
 

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,787
Likes
5,415
For the gas cylinder... they either work or not. IMO. Don't waste your money at Fulton Armory.

Thanks- I don't mind spending if it = improved accuracy, but no interest in spending money where it won't. I may have to shop for a while to find a decent one but no rush.
 

Mountain

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
9,787
Likes
5,415
Update:

I'm all set for all the major parts- NM in spec op rod, NOS gas cylinder, nice milled SA trigger group, etc. Prices all reasonable since I took my time. Probably will order remaining parts (follower parts etc.) from Orion 7. Decent prices and quality stock, from what I've heard. Already have some of their op springs.

Stock ID question:

Anyone know what would be indicated by a 'Q' stamp where the circle-P proof mark would be located on the pistol grip? I may just use the Terni stock for it's beautiful figured grain but if I use the 'Q' USGI stock it will be glass bedded. If it's anything unique, I'd prefer not to cut into it for the bedding. Probably it's nothing special with little to no collector value, which is what I want for the project. Lock up on this stock is so-so, while the Terni is in the rubber mallet to lock zone.

I've made some searches and have not found anything regarding the 'Q' proof mark.
 

mac1911

NES Member
Rating - 100%
66   0   0
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
27,196
Likes
4,323
Update:

I'm all set for all the major parts- NM in spec op rod, NOS gas cylinder, nice milled SA trigger group, etc. Prices all reasonable since I took my time. Probably will order remaining parts (follower parts etc.) from Orion 7. Decent prices and quality stock, from what I've heard. Already have some of their op springs.

Stock ID question:

Anyone know what would be indicated by a 'Q' stamp where the circle-P proof mark would be located on the pistol grip? I may just use the Terni stock for it's beautiful figured grain but if I use the 'Q' USGI stock it will be glass bedded. If it's anything unique, I'd prefer not to cut into it for the bedding. Probably it's nothing special with little to no collector value, which is what I want for the project. Lock up on this stock is so-so, while the Terni is in the rubber mallet to lock zone.

I've made some searches and have not found anything regarding the 'Q' proof mark.
Pictures?
 
Top Bottom