Unregistered Gun

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A friend/co-worker of mine and I were discussing our firearms and how the range time has been going when he brought up the fact that he acquired a new gun. He explained that a guy he knew just gave it to him because he wasn't licensed to have it and my friend explained that if he were caught with it in the house he could be looking at some painful fines and possibly some jail time. So, after being told that, this guy just gave the gun to my co-worker because he has a LTC. Admittedly so, my co-worker explained that he feels it was a stupid decision to take the gun because it isn't registered as far as he knows. He is afraid to bring it to the police for the simple fact that he is in possesion of it now and no one knows the history of this thing.

I really don't know what to tell him to do with it short of pulling the firing pin and either selling the parts or go for a boating trip. Any advice you guys might have that I can pass along so he doesn't get in trouble? I really don't need more work load if things go poorly and the PD take him in! This is honeslty a guy I work with not myself. I still consider myself wet behind the ears with guns and gun laws and would never take a sketchy chance like this. So, any advice?
 
I believe your friend and the individual he got the gun from can go to an FFL and have the transfer done there. JD will be along to clarify
 
does it matter that the guy that gave it to my co-worker never registered the gun to begin with? He claims a friend of his just gave it to him and there was no FFL or FA-10 filed then either. or, better yet, if this is perfectly legal to just transfer via an FA-10 since I worked on tracking down an answer I may be able to convince my co-worker to sign it over to me via an fa-10 we are both LTC. I am just worried about when it was last registered and now it has changed hands a few times if that will send up red flags if my co-worked tries to register it via an FFL?
 
Theoretically the only legal, right way to have done this was to have the non licensed person accompany your friend to a dealer and then transfer it that way. If they want the chain of custody to be clean, that's the best way to do it.

Of course, I realize at this point it might not be possible, if the original owner is gone. Then this leaves you with 2 options.... register it on an FA-10, or simply stop caring about it and do nothing. At this point it might not matter much either way. I've always wondered, legally, what was the best way out of situations like this, aside from not getting into them to begin with. [laugh]

-Mike
 
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Thanks guys, I will let him know he should at least file an FA-10 to register the gun in his name. I just hope the gun was not used for anything illegal in the past as it seems to have changed hands like a borrowed movie a few times more than it should ever have.
 
Yeah, I think I'd choose not to get into the situation in the first place. How do you know this gun wasn't stolen, used in a crime, etc? You've got no paper trail to point backward if somebody becomes interested in the gun for some reason and runs the serial.

But, to keep it legal on the current owners end, if he received it from somebody without an LTC, he is required to fill out an FA-10 with the transferer's info and no LTC number. Of course, if anybody cared, this would be a big pointer to the fact that there was something funny going on with the transfer.

If you wanted to take the gun (which I wouldn't advise) you could just have the current possessor fill out the FA-10 as usual since he's got an LTC and you're then legal, even if he may not be.

If the guy just wants to be rid of the gun, I'd turn it in to the local PD as "a gun that somebody surrendered to me, and I'm surrendering it to you." Again though, if the PD cared, that could be an opportunity to have them start digging.

The other choice is to find somebody who can torch cut the thing into three pieces, and call it a day.
 
I'm going to play devil's advocate here!

- I am unaware that S/Ns are "run" for stolen guns when CHSB scans in FA-10s.
- Since nobody does a ballistics test on guns sold/transferred in MA (yet), LE wouldn't know if a gun just registered/sold/traded had been used in a prior crime.
- How do I know that a gun I buy from a dealer wasn't used in a crime previously?
- How do I know (in a private sale) that the person selling the gun is actually the REAL OWNER? How do I know it was never stolen or used in a crime?

I contend that we have no real way to tell.

If my late Mother didn't have excellent memory "recall", there would have been a WWII bring-back Luger left behind in our house in Brookline when we moved. My late Father was in the VA Hospital with Rheumatic Fever when we actually moved out of Brookline. She asked the friend helping her move (I was a small kid at the time) to retrieve it and pack it along with everything else. My Father had no idea the gun was still in their possession until my Mother handed it to me ~25 years later.

I'd bet that the gun was legit, stashed away for many years and forgotten.

If I were worried, I would ask a friendly LEO to run the S/N, telling him/her that you were considering acquiring said gun and wanted to be sure it wasn't hot before doing the transaction. If clean, the home-owner could go with previous owner (if person can be found) to a MA FFL and do a nice legal transfer or if the person can't be found, just register it on an FA-10. [NOTE: IANAL and this isn't legal advice, but it does track what my late Chief told me to do when above-mentioned Luger was given to me.]
 
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Assuming it is a firearm that you can legally own in MA, obtain and complete an FA-10 form. Send it in and you are legal.

Bad advice. If the originally owner isn't licensed, you cannot use an FA 10 to do the transfer. You and your friend need to go to an FFL and do the transfer through the FFL.

Tell you friend not to throw the gun away.
 
You could bury it somewhere in case some unthinkable scenario leaves you unarmed. Same thing as a boat ride if there's no prints. Of course, I would never condone nor participate in such behavior myself.
 
Don't toss it. You could always strip the frame of all its parts, sell the parts and have the frame torched or cut up in a band saw (demilled like the miltary does). Just another option.
The frame with the serial number "is" the firearm. All other parts are totally legal to keep or sell.
Wayne
 
If you have no idea where it has been and is worried that ya it could be tied to anything from crime to who knows what. It is just another OPTION to destroy the frame. Not worth the risk in my opinion to keep it one way or another. It would be different if you knew it belonged to "Uncle Joe" who had it for 50 years or something, then I would do nothing, but there are too many question marks, at least it sounds this way. They are just looking to make examples of lawful gunowners!!
 
If you have no idea where it has been and is worried that ya it could be tied to anything from crime to who knows what. It is just another OPTION to destroy the frame. Not worth the risk in my opinion to keep it one way or another. It would be different if you knew it belonged to "Uncle Joe" who had it for 50 years or something, then I would do nothing, but there are too many question marks, at least it sounds this way. They are just looking to make examples of lawful gunowners!!

And How Do You (or I) KNOW that a gun we buy FTF or at a dealer's WASN'T USED IN A CRIME IN A PAST LIFE??

If one is that paranoid, I suggest that they shouldn't buy/own any guns! Just one persons opinion.

There are ways to deal with this, but NOTHING is 100%! I outlined earlier in this thread (see post #11) a way to check that the gun isn't listed as stolen in NCIC. I did this (before I bought) many years ago for another type of item that was well known to be stolen and re-sold, as I didn't want to get stuck with hot merchandise either. I would expect that 99% of the PDs out there would do this for a concerned citizen w/o hassle.
 
Point taken. I would think though if anything turned up on a firearm purchased from a dealer or private purchase, you would have information to fall back on, in this case he does not have the persons information or a way to get in touch with him at least it sounds this way. The other options seem to be worth doing, especially if you really like what you purchased.
 
Are we so scared of our oppressive gun laws in this state that we'd rather destroy a perfectly good firearm? Holy sheeple batman!

WTF? Just go to an FFL and get it over with.
 
WTF? Just go to an FFL and get it over with.

At least then theres a "Start" date to your ownership of that gun, and IMO you could argue the gun was clearly not in your possession before that date when/if it was used in the commission of a crime. (IANAL, just trying [wink])
 
Bad advice. If the originally owner isn't licensed, you cannot use an FA 10 to do the transfer. You and your friend need to go to an FFL and do the transfer through the FFL.

Tell you friend not to throw the gun away.

Do you mean the unlicensed guy (that gave the gun to my co-worker), and my co-worker should go to an FFL and transfer the ownership of the gun? Even though the unlicensed owner never registered his ownership of the firearm in the first place? How would that even work? My co-worker knows who the guy is that gave the firearm to the unlicensed individual awhile ago, but doesn't "know" that guy or why he would have given an unlicensed individual a gun, or what arrangements they may have made.

I don't want to see him throw the gun away either, so I am trying to find a way for him to make it legal to have it in his possession. If there were a way to convince my co-worker to give it to me I would, but alas I don't want to inherit the issues he may be faced with.

He is a licensed individual in possession of what is presumed to be an unregistered handgun and he is looking to make his possession of said handgun legal for all intents and purposes, without being held accountable for prior incidents with said handgun before his recent possession. This is the underlying problem at hand. Is filling out a new FA-10 "registering" the gun in his name "as of" todays date going to protect him in the event of any potential crimes tied to this particular firearm. (For the record, it is not assumed it was used in a crime, my co-worker just wants to cover his angles as best as possible).
 
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He is a licensed individual in possession of what is presumed to be an unregistered handgun and he is looking to make his possession of said handgun legal for all intents and purposes, without being held accountable for prior incidents with said handgun before his recent possession. This is the underlying problem at hand. Is filling out a new FA-10 "registering" the gun in his name "as of" todays date going to protect him in the event of any potential crimes tied to this particular firearm. (For the record, it is not assumed it was used in a crime, my co-worker just wants to cover his angles as best as possible).

The only proper way, by the letter of the law, that I see is for the current owner to file an FA-10 per C. 140 § 128B (acquisition from an unauthorized source). But this process potentially illuminates the original unlicensed individual as the felon they became when they transferred the handgun illegally (because unlicensed folks cannot transfer guns except through an FFL, per § 128).

What Cross-X is suggesting is to, in effect, revoke the transfer as if it never happened and give the gun back to the unlicensed individual (at least in theory, not to actually give them possession again), and then 're-do' the transfer correctly, which would be to take it to an FFL and have them do the transfer. This is the most prudent approach to take.

If neither of those solutions is practical/palatable, then the third option is to destroy the gun and move on. The fourth option, proposed by some of the other folks above is to just not worry about it. I'm not sure I subscribe to that solution.
 
thanks for the breakdown jdubois. I can wrap my head around it a little better. I will link my co-worker to the thread in the hopes that is sheds some light on his options.
 
Dziner,

Your friend should follow Cross-X's advice as soon as possible.

It seems to me, that he already has some potential exposure since he has already taken possession of the gun.

If the gun does have any history, he would need (if anything shows up on the gun) to depend on the person who gave it to him, to veryify that he was no part of that history by 'testifying' to the date he transferred the gun to him. That could be an iffy proposition if having the guy do so, would expose himself to liability he couldn't explain.

The guy who gave up the gun also HAD exposure but he has relieved himself of it by giving it to your friend.

Now, there is no record at all that he ever had possession of it or where it came from. Technically, all that is known (for the record) is that your friend now has possession.


Make sure the gun is made legal as fast as possible.

.
 
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