Unloading a gas operated shotgun

milktree

milktree

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OK, this feels like a really stupid question that I really should know the answer to.

The usual routine for semi-autos is remove the magazine, operate the action to clear the chamber, check it's empty, lock the action open.

Context: I've been teaching Home Firearm Safety because of scheduling urgency to get people their certs *NOW* and scheduling range time for Basic Pistol is fraught with peril. HFS requires demonstrating and practicing the unloading of a bunch of stuff.

So far, so good, right?

But I can't figure out how to unload a gas operated, tube fed semi-auto shotgun

You can't reasonably remove the magazine on a tube fed semi-auto shotgun, and certainly can't expect to teach that in a HFS class.

Here's the problem I'm running into: Operating the action manually doesn't feed from the magazine. There's two catches in the magazine that make feeding work, one right at the mouth of the magazine, one further back. They work together to stage the hull into the feed mechanism without jamming.

Operating the action manually does not release the more forward one, so you can cycle the action all day and the magazine doesn't empty.

I've tried this on my Mossberg 5500 (which shoots just fine) and on one of the club's Beretta somethingorother. Neither feed the rounds when the action is operated manually, and fail in the same way.

For the class I have some of those NRA approved orange dummies which I filled with lead shot and epoxy to give them the correct weight.

Outside the class I've tried with actual ammo with the same failure.

What obvious thing am I missing?

I'm just skipping the gas-gun bit because the only way I have figured out how to unload them involves manually pushing on the forward catch which is kinda hard to do, and even harder to explain how to do.
 
There will likely be some sort of release button on or inside the receiver. On modern Berettas there's a little button just in front of the trigger guard. The location will vary by manufacturer. But it's there somewhere.

A400-Xplor-Action-Close-up.jpg

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Push the release button and rack the shotgun again. Live shell will eject. Repeat until empty.
 
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milktree said:
OK, this feels like a really stupid question that I really should know the answer to.

The usual routine for semi-autos is remove the magazine, operate the action to clear the chamber, check it's empty, lock the action open.

Context: I've been teaching Home Firearm Safety because of scheduling urgency to get people their certs *NOW* and scheduling range time for Basic Pistol is fraught with peril. HFS requires demonstrating and practicing the unloading of a bunch of stuff.

So far, so good, right?

But I can't figure out how to unload a gas operated, tube fed semi-auto shotgun

You can't reasonably remove the magazine on a tube fed semi-auto shotgun, and certainly can't expect to teach that in a HFS class.

Here's the problem I'm running into: Operating the action manually doesn't feed from the magazine. There's two catches in the magazine that make feeding work, one right at the mouth of the magazine, one further back. They work together to stage the hull into the feed mechanism without jamming.

Operating the action manually does not release the more forward one, so you can cycle the action all day and the magazine doesn't empty.

I've tried this on my Mossberg 5500 (which shoots just fine) and on one of the club's Beretta somethingorother. Neither feed the rounds when the action is operated manually, and fail in the same way.

For the class I have some of those NRA approved orange dummies which I filled with lead shot and epoxy to give them the correct weight.

Outside the class I've tried with actual ammo with the same failure.

What obvious thing am I missing?

I'm just skipping the gas-gun bit because the only way I have figured out how to unload them involves manually pushing on the forward catch which is kinda hard to do, and even harder to explain how to do.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I've had Brownings, Benellis and Remingtons and they've all been easily unloaded operating action manually while holding release.
 
Keep it pointed in a safe direction, and manually cycle the action?

Or, do what some of my dad's hunting buddies (very old school* European immigrants) did: keep pulling the trigger, until the noise stopped.






* One of them was old and rural enough that he came close to being pulled down by wolves, while out hunting as a kid/young man. He was ~60+, when I was a kid, 45 years ago, so it was a while back.
 
18 Ventura said:
There will likely be some sort of release button on or inside the receiver. On modern Berettas there's a little button just in front of the trigger guard. The location will vary by manufacturer. But it's there somewhere.

View attachment 914953

View attachment 914957

Push the release button and rack the shotgun again. Live shell will eject. Repeat until empty.
Click to expand...

Woodsloafer said:
Hmmm, I've had Brownings, Benellis and Remingtons and they've all been easily unloaded operating action manually while holding release.
Click to expand...

I don't remember seeing button that would do that anywhere on either of the shotguns I tried. I'll look again.
 
IPSC_DRL said:
Get a Rem 1100? 😊

I know some Semi-auto shotguns have a magazine cutoff (Browning) but I have never run into the issue you describe.
Click to expand...

Actually, if the answer is, "there's no generic answer for gas operated tube fed shotguns", that's useful, 'cuz at least it means it's not worth teaching it other than, "they're all different and some can't be unloaded easily."

That's more useful than showing a particular model that doesn't match anything else out there. Teaching that could lead to accidents because people would try rather than just putting on the safety and storing it out of reach.
 
milktree said:
Actually, if the answer is, "there's no generic answer for gas operated tube fed shotguns", that's useful, 'cuz at least it means it's not worth teaching it other than, "they're all different and some can't be unloaded easily"
Click to expand...
Just print out this thread and hand it out lol
 
My A400 and CZ1012 unload on cycling just fine, but maybe that release lever has to be pressed if the striker/hammer remains cocked. I just do it subconsciously and the gun unloads. When I was selling guns we would demo this with customers with a bunch of dummy rounds.

If you teach it I would just add a disclaimer that people should refer to their manual.
 
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You can manually push the shell holder tab thing (technical term) to the side and they pop out of the tube. That’s a 1301 but I assume most semis have something similar? That’s what I do. I also think you can pull the bolt release and they pop out. Not home so can’t try. Obviously rack the one of the chamber if applicable.
 
There are often two catches to the shell-holder-in-the-tube assembly. If one is releasing, and the other is not, there may be crud behind the recalcitrant one, or it may actually be broken.

OP- if you're unable to clear the tube from the back end, is it possible to remove the magazine tube cap, and the spring and such and empty if from the front? (Some of mine you can do that with, others not so easily.
 
On my Tristar Viper Max and Mossberg 930 JM Pro I just keep the gun in a safe direction and cycle it. The Tristar does have a tube cutoff switch, which is useful when hunting and I only want to clear the chamber.

My 1012 has a mag tube feed release. Just have to hit that to release each shell from the tube. I’m pretty sure I can press forward (or back, don’t remember) on the bolt release and it will open release the mag tube.
 
Bodhisattva said:
On my Tristar Viper Max and Mossberg 930 JM Pro I just keep the gun in a safe direction and cycle it. The Tristar does have a tube cutoff switch, which is useful when hunting and I only want to clear the chamber.

My 1012 has a mag tube feed release. Just have to hit that to release each shell from the tube. I’m pretty sure I can press forward (or back, don’t remember) on the bolt release and it will open release the mag tube.
Click to expand...
I’ll experiment with those ideas, see if they work.
 
MisterHappy said:
There are often two catches to the shell-holder-in-the-tube assembly. If one is releasing, and the other is not, there may be crud behind the recalcitrant one, or it may actually be broken.
Click to expand...

Maybe? But one gun is mine and it worked perfectly when I last shot it, the other is maintained by the junior trap chair so I have pretty high confidence it’s in good working order.
MisterHappy said:
OP- if you're unable to clear the tube from the back end, is it possible to remove the magazine tube cap, and the spring and such and empty if from the front? (Some of mine you can do that with, others not so easily.
Click to expand...

That would probably work, but it’s far from ideal for a Home Firearm Safety class.
 
Tinkermatic said:
View attachment 915169
You can manually push the shell holder tab thing (technical term) to the side and they pop out of the tube. That’s a 1301 but I assume most semis have something similar? That’s what I do. I also think you can pull the bolt release and they pop out. Not home so can’t try. Obviously rack the one of the chamber if applicable.
Click to expand...

Both of the ones I tried have two of those shell holder tab things, one operated by the action, the other by… recoil? The trigger? Not sure exactly.

The difficult one is small and stiff, and hard to push with my fingers.
 
drgrant said:
My A400 and CZ1012 unload on cycling just fine, but maybe that release lever has to be pressed if the striker/hammer remains cocked. I just do it subconsciously and the gun unloads. When I was selling guns we would demo this with customers with a bunch of dummy rounds.

If you teach it I would just add a disclaimer that people should refer to their manual.
Click to expand...

DPR said:
Did you not read the owners manual?
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OP, I do not know about the exact curriculum for Home Firearms Safety or if you have had specific requests from students about these shotguns. But details about specific shotgun models do not seem required for basic education or live fire drills.

The comments above pretty much cover the important part for basic education. There are a wide range of firearms that have some odd aspect about their operation. Basic education should remind students that some firearms work oddly, that they are responsible for knowing the correct operation of any firearms they own or handle, and that the owners manual is the final resource for all questions about specific models.

I personally am careful with all tube fed firearms because it is not possible to inspect the magazine, so extra care must be paid to ensure the magazine is empty when it is supposed to be. This I think is good advice for beginners, but I would not cover specific models except in response to student questions.

Here is a clip of Paul Harrell (RIP) demonstrating a potentially very unexpected aspect of how the Marlin Model 60 works. The video is queued to 1:43, and I think the next 40 seconds is really worth a watch. And let me add an extra thank you to Paul for this.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_u-WML-8k&t=103s


I am a Range Safety Officer at my club and I have shown lots of 10/22 owners how their bolt hold open works. The standard bolt open on a 10/22 does not work like any other firearms I am aware of, and the design is really stupid. This is always a reminder to me that people really do own firearms that they don't fully know how to operate. And there have been lots of other occasions when I have shown people how their own firearms work and then told them that reading the manual is a real thing. So to me, reminding people to learn their own equipment is the important part of basic education.
 
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