University shooter course of action questions

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So I was pondering on my walk through campus what I should do in case of a shooting at my school (which will go unnamed). Let's assume for the sake of this argument that one is going to be following the law and not carrying a gun or weapon of any sort. We'll also assume the school is in the city and consists of a large number of geographically separated buildings, which are predominantly but not necessarily linked to one another by bridges, walkways, etc.

As far as I can tell, there are 3 options off the top of my head. I do not have any expertise in this area so I appreciate any insight.

1. Hunker down in the office. Pros: doesn't take a lot of prep, not necessary to know where the perp is. Cons: multiple points of entry, office mates open the door at night when somebody knocks without asking who it is so I don't know how secure we'll be, doors and walls are flimsy and lack sufficient locks. I haven't completely mapped the space yet but there are 8 separate points of entry, 3 of which are the double doors that lock in the middle (hence the combined give of each side could result in a very easy entry).

2. Escape via hallways/stairs and/or basement tunnels. Pros: multiple routes that could be decided in advance, routes are adaptable, gets me off campus in a hurry. Cons: without a clear idea of where the perp is, I could be running into a death trap, or I could end up in a horde of other students.

3. Utilize a creative entry point into the building structure (I know of at least one entrance into the ceiling from the bathroom). Pros: I'm well hidden and it's unlikely the perp will find me there. Cons: I would not be able to likely map it in advance, I would likely have to abandon some of the less athletic or it would take too much time, and the ceiling tiles offer no ballistic protection whatsoever, though I could perhaps find a space that does.

There are, of course, other considerations. In a roof shooter situation, it may be best to hunker down and wait it out. However, knowing the nature of the shooter is probably not going to happen very easily, so it's something else I've been considering.

Thanks for reading my uneducated view of things. Now, I'm interested to hear what others have to say. I realize for some of you this may be like asking whether you'd rather be shot with a 9mm or .45, but this is a very real question to which I very much want to know the answer.
 
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Go opposite of the action. Armed or not.

Assuming you are alone of course.

Fyi: "we" preach that our saftey is an individual responsibility, yet there will be cowboys with ccw badges to state otherwise.
 
Go opposite of the action. Armed or not.

Assuming you are alone of course.

Fyi: "we" preach that our saftey is an individual responsibility, yet there will be cowboys with ccw badges to state otherwise.

I suppose with that in mind the question becomes do I have an obligation to those around me. That said, I realize I'm unarmed in this scenario, so the obligation is from a "lead to safety" perspective and not an "eliminate the threat" perspective.

And just to clarify, are you saying I should be on the move from the moment I get information that there's an active threat?
 
I personally would safeguard those around me and beat feet to saftey. Even if armed, i dont want to be mistaken for the bad guy.

Lots of variables here.. there is no wrong answer outside of living.

[smile]
 
I don't know which of the three choices will be "best" but I can add some food for thought.

First of all, consider that in most cases the first way that you'll know that there is an active shooter is when you hear the gunfire. These things tend to happen very very quickly such that there's no time for notification systems to kick in or the schools drop the ball and don't say anything until it's far too late. If you are notified, they won't give you any info, they will simply direct you what to do (either a flat evac order or a shelter in place directive) and you'll have to take them on faith.

Second, decide now whether you are willing to die for your coworkers. It sounds very dramatic but that's the reality. Different people will come down on different sides of that question, I don't think either is a "wrong" choice....your life, your responsibilities, your relationship with your coworkers, and the dynamics of the situation that unfolds are something only you can weigh and you are the one that will have to live (or not) with the burden of having made that decision.
 
Knife in hand (legal on campus), wait at the closest ambush location, and pray you see the shooter first before he sees you. Any plan involves movement in open areas could expose you to the shooter. If the gunfire sounds far away, then evac away from the action.
 
If you are notified, they won't give you any info, they will simply direct you what to do (either a flat evac order or a shelter in place directive) and you'll have to take them on faith.
Or you can disobey and do what you think needs to be done.
 
Cover, concealment, and Nike-Fu. You hear a ruckus, change direction. If there's people around you, drag em with you, but don't get shot over a slow fatty.
 
Knife in hand (legal on campus), wait at the closest ambush location, and pray you see the shooter first before he sees you. Any plan involves movement in open areas could expose you to the shooter. If the gunfire sounds far away, then evac away from the action.

I failed to mention it's MA, so I don't think knives are legal on campus. If I were allowed to carry one, I would but I would use it as a last resort.

Cover, concealment, and Nike-Fu. You hear a ruckus, change direction. If there's people around you, drag em with you, but don't get shot over a slow fatty.

Sound advice, makes sense.

I don't know which of the three choices will be "best" but I can add some food for thought.

Second, decide now whether you are willing to die for your coworkers.

Interesting point, and one I have not fully considered yet.
 
I failed to mention it's MA, so I don't think knives are legal on campus. If I were allowed to carry one, I would but I would use it as a last resort.

There's no specific law in MA regarding carriage of knives on college campuses. The college (in MA) that I went to actually required all freshman and certain upperclassmen to carry knives at all times.

It's all policy.

Chances are, if you get caught with it by the wrong person, that there's 7 years of college down the drain.


Knives aren't you only option. A kubaton, 'tactical pen', sturdy flashlight, sap, and tons of other things can be stuck in a bag or back pocket, go unnoticed, and offer a modicum of advantage over open hand in a time of need. Just make sure, like all other things in life, that you practice deployment and use.
 
MGL Chapter71/Section37H says if you carry knife on campus, you might get expelled. Big deal. Pocket carry and no one should know.

" (a) Any student who is found on school premises or at school-sponsored or school-related events, including athletic games, in possession of a dangerous weapon, including, but not limited to, a gun or a knife; or a controlled substance as defined in chapter ninety-four C, including, but not limited to, marijuana, cocaine, and heroin, may be subject to expulsion from the school or school district by the principal."
 
MGL Chapter71/Section37H says if you carry knife on campus, you might get expelled. Big deal. Pocket carry and no one should know.

" (a) Any student who is found on school premises or at school-sponsored or school-related events, including athletic games, in possession of a dangerous weapon, including, but not limited to, a gun or a knife; or a controlled substance as defined in chapter ninety-four C, including, but not limited to, marijuana, cocaine, and heroin, may be subject to expulsion from the school or school district by the principal."

That's regarding elementary/middle/high school. As I noted above, colleges are a separate deal.
 
Knife in hand (legal on campus), wait at the closest ambush location, and pray you see the shooter first before he sees you. Any plan involves movement in open areas could expose you to the shooter. If the gunfire sounds far away, then evac away from the action.

i'd rather leave it to the pro's... i.e SWAT / SRT / Bomb Squad / EOD / ect...
 
Don't schools usually "lock down" and you're supposed to stay wherever you are? To me, that could be the worst thing to do depending on the situation. If I was say, in a dorm room, I'd stay there. There is one entry point, it isn't getting opened by me, and if someone does somehow get in I'd be ready with something (probably a knife) to take action. If I was in the middle of campus I'm going the opposite direction and I'd keep going. BTW, do people really obey and not have knives at college? I think I always had one.
 
My personal perspective on the majority of these events is to run like hell with those I know away from gunfire to safety unless I have to stand and fight. So this means staying mobile and keeping out of choke/ambush points.

I don't know about pepper spray but it and a knife can give you a big advantage over the typical student active shooter. Is your car parked off campus?

Often times these tend to be other students who are trying to enact some type of revenge and could easily (flame away) be suprised/thrown off by an ambush, or some type of returned agression. If you have to stand and fight take every advantage you can and win.
 
Or you can disobey and do what you think needs to be done.

In NH you would be a hero.

In MA you would be criminal and be made out to be a vigilante that put the lives of everyone in jeopardy and if you actually shot and killed the shooter you would be charged with murder, illegal carry and probably never see the outside of the prison walls ever again. Thats if the cops just didn't shoot you to because they have no clue who the shooter is and what the person looks like. If you are not in uniform, you are no different than the shooter and are a valid target.
 
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Lets see first i would confront the shooter and confirm that what he has is legal, if its high cap i would ask him if it was pre-ban. if it wasn't i would then go ahead and lecture him on the faucets of what's legal and none legal in the state of MA. Now if that didn't stop him i would recite the MGL's for him, cause he might not know that what he's doing is illegal. I would then ask him for a light to spark up my newport cause we all know he isn't going to shoot me, he knows i'm not food and therefore any threats against me would be futile. I would continue to lecture him and then i would disarm him with one glance, he'll know what's up and quickly give up.

I then will proceed to put my cig out on his forehead


Defens does this really need to be asked? if this really were to happen out the first door you can find right to your car and then out of the parking lot burning rubber,
 
Lean one shoulder against a wall and then light up a Newport (in slow motion) while everyone goes running past. When the active shooter gets to you, he'll be scared sh*tless and give up on the spot.

You will then be charged for smoking indoors.

-JR
 
UMass actually has a pamphlet outlining what to do. They recommend throwing books or other objects at the shooter, and then holding them until police arrive. No bs, the police department actually puts out a pamphlet with this as advice.

Mike
 
UMass actually has a pamphlet outlining what to do. They recommend throwing books or other objects at the shooter, and then holding them until police arrive. No bs, the police department actually puts out a pamphlet with this as advice.

Mike

what do you expect from an MA college, colleges are full of liberals. i say leave and let them figure out how to handle it themselves
 
First option: Run like hell. GTFO of there.
Second option: If I couldn't get out, hunker down somewhere I thought was safe.
Third option: I'm exposed or there's nowhere safe to hunker down and there's no way to get out, fight. Situation would dictate strategy, whether I could ambush him or not, in some way get behind him, etc. If I'm armed (unlikely since I was at school), use that to my advantage, if I'm unarmed then any of my hand-to-hand skills have to be severely crippling or lethal, including but not limited to gouging out his eyes, snapping his neck, dislocating/tearing all the ligiments in his knees, etc.

I'm not trying to be an armchair commando here. I put a lot of thought into this, especially being in school during the VT massacre. The police were already on campus and it took them nearly 5 minutes to respond, imagine how long it would have been if they weren't already there. At UMass Dartmouth, many of the classrooms had only one way in and out, and while the walls were solid concrete, the doors had some nice big glass windows in them which wouldn't offer much protection, even if we could barricade the it shut.
 
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