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United Technologies takes over Raytheon

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by 1776, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    It didn't take long for the company to go south (internally) after the last of the original management left. 57% ownership by UT is a take-over. Customer directed, after kicking sand in customers faces for recent years of bad management? A purge over many layers of soon to be redundant Raytheon management levels will certainly be a plus! But now many of them will cash in and run. Just the association with Raytheon has dragged the UT stock down.

    Raytheon, United Technologies to merge, creating defense giant
    4 Questions Hovering Over the Raytheon-United Technologies Deal to Create a Defense Giant
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019

  2. snax

    snax NES Member

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    How many lifers in Raytheon are sweating bullets right now?
    Dug in like tics for years thinking Raytheon ain't going nowhere.
    How much will be moved to low cost states?
    Give it 2-3 years.
     
  3. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    More like the cockroach scurry when the lights come on, at the management levels. A lot of it was former Hugh's and Texas Instruments, along with their existing facilities. Probably more closures than moving.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  4. new guy

    new guy NES Member

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    Is/was Raytheon that much of a shitshow?
     
  5. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Probably equal to the 737 team and snake pit environment. The management theme in companies like these, according to the Inspector General, is to Lie, Hide, and Deceive! Then there's the industry HR and HR Risk Management processes that puts the squash on anyone that disobey's the "Lie, Hide, and Deceive" theme if anyone points out problems, as is being shown in the Boeing criminal investigations. These are truly criminal enterprises. But since the products and services are still neeeded, how can it be fixed? Purge the management team, and try to seek out and eliminate the cancer cells!

    This has been a big part of the problem, it's a total shitshow and sham
    http://www.sriregistrar.com/wp-content/uploads/AS9100-V7.pdf
    The certification company's are in bed with the clients, like the FAA and Boeing, there have been good congressional hearing questions in this regard
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  6. mu2bdriver

    mu2bdriver NES Member

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    And the added benefit to UTC is to be able to move the corporate headquarters and the ~100 highest income earners.
     
  7. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    My father was an over 30 year guy who hated management.
     
  8. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    The MBTA would be a good place for the top 100 to go!

    It would be more like the top 1000 that need to be purged to have any hope of a non recurrence. Those are the ones that have sold their soul's for cash, gotta pay for the new SUV(s), and are promotable when the have signed documents that can have them accountable for felonies and criminal indictments.

    If the results of the Boeing criminal investigations come out, you will see an example of what they do and how they do it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  9. fshalor

    fshalor NES Member

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    Raytheon was an absolute joke in the community I worked around 2010-2015.

    The best story was this 10 million project for a beefed up mooring. We took the hit on managing it, ratheon did the box up design. We did the mooring and battery and internals.

    Thing shows up. Late. On a chromed out to the max new lowboy with raytheon on the door. One of the seasoned mooring techs goes over to the mast and grabs it with his hand and shakes gently.

    The thing bounces around and wiggles for the next five minutes while his boss is arguing with the Raytheon engineer about whether it is seaworthy.

    Phone calls and executive decisions later, they put on all the electronics. So that wiggly mast now has a few hundred pounds of gear and wiring on it. To work safe the mooring group added a few beefy ratchet straps.

    Anyway, fast forward to deployment and the ratchet straps are still there. The mooring group wants nothing to do with it. The Raytheon guy demands that they be taken off. The mooring group says no. The Raytheon guy swings dick and they straps come off.

    Guess what happened before all the line was even in the water? The mast broke.

    So 10 million plus for a thin piece of expensive metal backed by poor engineering.

    No one ever trusted anything they built to be turnkey.
     
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  10. CoastieRon

    CoastieRon NES Member

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    I worked there from 2004 - 2011 in the security department

    Yes, and here are a few observations:

    A good number of employees in the local facilities (read Andover, Tewksbury) got their jobs via family members, and have been there for decades. My family is no exception, I still have 3 cousins that work there, 1 got the job through his dad, the other two (sisters) got the job through their mother. Through the years, including me, I've had:

    4 Uncles (3 retired, one passed away)
    4 Aunts (1 early retirement, the other 3 moved on)
    Mother
    Grand father
    5 cousins
    2 second cousins (they have to be retired by now, they had been there for decades in the cables section)

    Some of those relatives started at the old Shawsheen plant, as well as the old Lowell plant. Various levels of management, program etc. One cousin has multiple patents and was one of the original Raytheon Six Sigma blackbelts or whatever the f*** it's called now.

    Anyway, the nepotism is real there, and people stay there as long as they can, and become entrenched. Hell, one uncle (who just retired), started when he was in high school, at the age of 17, and just retired 2 years ago. He was there almost 50 years.

    "We've always done it that way" is a term you hear a lot. It got to the point a few years ago that they created a change management division......

    Management, through all the levels is a good old boy network. If you want to see how really f'd up it was/is, consider the purge that happened after Dan Smith was "retired". Every single person that was canned was someone he brought in.

    On a lower level, circling back to the nepotism, I wrote a paper on it for my undergrad, and when I had my exit interview from Raytheon, I read it to the HR rep, and accompanied it with slides. I was promised a promotion when I finished my degree. I finished the degree, interviewed for the job, had the experience, etc, and they gave the job to a director's son, who was the intern in the same office the week before.

    Yikes.....
     
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  11. new guy

    new guy NES Member

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  12. CoastieRon

    CoastieRon NES Member

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    Yep. And now all those people (25 years and over) are leaving, and are not passing down the knowledge as fast as they are retiring. Raytheon has to merge with someone, because their knowledge drain is huge right now. People that have been there 25 years or more LOVE when early retirement packages come out....
     
  13. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    Was a manager there for ten years.
    Yes they were screwed up. Being a union shop def contributed to the crazy shit that went on. But ALL military systems houses are similarly screwed up. They make their money bybsupporting fielded systems, rewriting code, etc


    When i was there, their missile and EW systems were top notch.

    It started sliding downhill when all missile production left the state
     
  14. blindfire

    blindfire NES Member

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    Oh joy....an even larger company to suck off the government teet.
     
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  15. rep308

    rep308 NES Member

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    As a person who sold and supported Raytheon and all the other big Mil/Aero accounts, my opinion is that the electronic design side was better than most of other other industry players
     
  16. Mountain

    Mountain NES Member

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    My brother escaped Raytheon space systems a few years back. His direct engineering boss was great but he had a 'dotted line' program manager that was horrendous as well as inept. This guy was a single-handed HR / turnover train wreck while blatantly asserting his double protected status. There were other managers who made their teams miserable yet were never given any correction from upper management. I do miss my brother's stories from that time- they were always a cut above Dilbert cartoons.

    Technical teams were solid, but general management was a complete shitshow.
     
  17. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA NES Member

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    My FIL worked in Braintree (Quincy?? I forget) for yeahz. Forever. He must have retired 15 years ago.

    Remember when the Commonwealth gave Raytheon that huge tax break for not moving jobs out of state. . . and they moved the jobs anyway? LOL. Why is it that stuff ONLY happens in Mass????

    Does Raytheon still own Amana?? I haven't needed to know for 25 years. (My FIL would get rebates if we bought Raytheon appliances.)
     
  18. CoastieRon

    CoastieRon NES Member

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    No shit. The security guard union was a sham, and I don't think the IBEW representation (which covered every union employee other than the guards when I left) was doing them any favors.

    I went to RTN right after I RELAD, working 3rd shift on the guard force. When I was hired, I was never told it was a union shop. One day, 30 days after I started, I was confronted by the union steward and asked if I had signed my card. I had no idea what the hell he was talking about, so I asked him. He explained it was a union shop and I had to pay dues. I asked how much the dues were, and he said $4.50 a week. I asked what I get for the cost of 2 gallons of milk (it was 2004) and he simply replied "you get a f***ing job. If that's not good enough, bundle your shit and get the f*** out, or sign the goddamned card and shut your face".

    That was my introduction to unions.

    I lasted 1 year and 3 months in the guard force, and was hired into the security office.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  19. bsaks

    bsaks NES Life Member NES Member

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    Any big company that has that sweet combination of unions and relying on big .gov contracts has these same problems. My company has nothing to do with military systems, but good chunk of our revenue is from fat state/fed contracts. We have the same problems here. We call them the middle management mafia. Single handedly ruining the company inside out.
     
  20. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    The critical knowledge base has been heading out the door and the incompetent connected Twits and Bitches have taken over to go down with the ship. Definitely an incestuous mafia like manged enterprise. Some of the better paying jobs require small arms training.

    Why the hell would UTC want this shit show, unless it was orchestrated by third parties to clean house at RayCo. You can only thumb your nose at your customers for so long.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  21. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Can UTC take the pension funds of RayCo employees under the minimum eligible retirement age of 55, but still on the old non 401k pension plan? I know people in this category.
     
  22. JRLB

    JRLB NES Member

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    Ever hear the term “good enough for government work”?
     
  23. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    364 people heard it with Boeing, and the FAA being the government. The "good enough" was the flight critical single sub-system test versus a complete system test. Criminal investigation in progress. This will identify all the cancer cells that signed off on the "Good Enough".
     
  24. CoastieRon

    CoastieRon NES Member

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    This is a good question. I'm actually vested in the old pension plan at RTN, and get yearly notices.....
     
  25. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    I talked to one guy that's been deferring his pension and continuing to work in the snake pit. He said that UTC has probably already arranged with RayCo to go after the pension fund, so he's putting in for his full retirement benefit which will be executed as a monthly annuity payment that UTC will not be able to touch once he's out. Otherwise, he may be SOL. Then there's the RAYSIP (RATSIP) bucket.

    If you signed up for the legal support benefit (under contract by the company), give them a call to see if they will weigh in on the subject. See if their response sounds like they're reading a script provided by the company. And rest assured that they will ID who you are, and record what your asking.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  26. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    This is a simple business model where the economies of a half size company cannot compete against companies double the size. Cost reductions of half size companies in this industry would cause an implosion and affect required products and services. We are paying with tax dollars for the redundant overhead structures and internal capabilities of these companies. The internal management history speaks for itself. With the business and product life cycles and diminishing knowledge base, with no hope in sight of the twits and twit bitches being able to support what's needed, what's happening must continue and may have quite a bit of collateral damage. You might get a "thank you for your service" when they line you up against the brick wall.

    Watch the movie Gladiator, and sorry if you didn't realize you were in a gladiator job.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  27. Coda

    Coda NES Member

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    For any Raytheon employees I sure hope it goes better than GE’s takeover of Alstom (formerly ABB and Combustion Engineering).

    First thing they did was get rid of all exiting upper management and replaced them with GE managers that knew nothing about the product. Then all administrative assistants were let go. GE does not have admins, you do your own travel arrangements, expense reports and order your own supplies. Then they closed/sold off all the buildings. It was rented office space or you worked from home. Then they came after anyone over the age of 60. I was 59 when they took over so I lasted a couple of years before they laid me off after 40 years of service.

    I talk to a few of the survivors that are still left and all are looking to get out, retire or switch jobs. The older folks like me could just retire, I feel for the younger ones that need to find another job. So now the whole company is tanking, stock price is at an all time low. They moved their cooperate offices to Boston with all kinds of promises to the city, instead they are just laying off more people. And to add insult to injury it took almost 2 years for me (or actually my financial guy) to get all of my 401K money and cash balance pension funds. This was really not the way I wanted to retire.
     
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  28. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    you know what is funny...back when i was at the lazy R....we used to joke that 30 or 40 of us could go start our own company, and pretty much design and build ANY military system twice as good as Raytheon could. There is just layer upon layer of bullshit in those big companies that seems to be dedicated to PREVENTING you from succeeding at your project!
     
  29. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    We can only hope it's as bad as GE’s takeover of Alstom for every level of management, and all the twits and twit bitches. I'm sure that this has been in planning for quite a while. Resident customer representatives know what has been going on regarding the internal slime and rot in this cesspool. Since most properties have been sold and leased back, there's no cash left there. Now for the pension plans.

    The RAYSIP RayCo investment choice managed by Fidelity is not stock, it's a stock fund that is setup in such a way so that even Fidelity cannot find out what portion of it's value is related to market fluctuation or (lack of) dividends (Lie, Hide, Deceive). Senior investment analysts at Fidelity did not realize this until an investigation was requested. They have never seen a fund that they couldn't see the performance of every element at any time like all other funds they manage. They were surprised that their online analysis tool selection button wasn't even there for this fund. Good job slime balls! Is this a SEC criminal violation? Fidelity would not discuss this further.

    Types of Securities Violations | LegalMatch
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  30. 1776

    1776 NES Member

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    Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

    “Raytheon is a significantly inferior-quality business compared to Collins Aerospace and Pratt & Whitney,” Ackman said referring to the company’s aerospace operations.

    Since when doesn't it make sense for a company with superior-quality aerospace operations to take over a company with inferior-quality aerospace operations and a billion of inferior-quality redundant overhead. And we the taxpayer are paying for this, and the customers have an inferior-quality supplier to deal with and look forward to having a superior-quality supplier take over. This guy is a clairvoyant and doesn't know it.

    Does "Drain The Swamp" apply here? Another MBTA management and customer service model?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019

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