Because there is money to be made if racism is kept alive.
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Unarmed black man killed by white Phoenix officer
- Thread starter Reptile
- Start date
Because there is money to be made if racism is kept alive.
xtry51
NES Member
M
This. I don't want cameras. I want accountability.
This. I don't want cameras. I want accountability.
OfficerObie59
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Let's just remember that police departments use technology that is meant to bring accountability and instead use it to harass and **** with officers the brass and administration doesn't like for one reason or another. Body cams will be no different.
It's no secret that the people who sue police departments the most are usually the officers the department employs.
We tried cams (not even body cams) at a training facility for some unnamed PDs. The unions shot it down.
Body cams will be difficult with the 2-party law. For as long as someone doesn't give consent, video without audio in a situation that warrants the review of body cam footage would be difficult at least.
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Lets not forget the "knockout game" that was being played out on our streets.
Biff Quizler
NES Member
Wish i could think of the Maryland Trooper's name to give proper credit, but he was one of the first to be issued a dash cam and used it in court to show the guilty in all their prime time glory![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
I believe you are referring to Mike Lewis, retired MD SP and ? current Sheriff
http://www.wicomicosheriff.com/sheriff.htm
Biff Quizler
NES Member
OK, just for discussion (argument/flogging, etc) sake...... Police officers are required to undergo background checks, drug tests, keep current in a batch of things to include firearms training/criminal law/politically mandated training/etc. Now as public servants, the public whom that person has sworn to serve, can request maybe even require that they wear body cameras. OK.
Now I've been short changed by the fast food cashier, may not have faith in members of public office (who seem to always be in the press and guilty of some white collar crime), oh and the auto mechanic that might have not quite done my brakes/engine right and endangered my families lives, oh members of the media who have blatantly lied and provided inflammatory false info effecting public opinion and potential safety, oh and what subtle one sided political messages are being provided to my school aged child dependent on teachers opinion.......... Now I can't even trust a comedian for gods sake!!!!
Why not body cameras for all public servants and maybe even private businesses that have the potential to commit crimes or anyone that can do ME wrong????????????? (I know alot of places of business are monitored by video but not necessarily audio and they don't "need" to retain it for years.)
What would peoples opinions be if all LTC holders had to wear body cameras while they carried, even if they never used their weapon??? (I know the answer here, I'm quite aware of 2A but I bet you wouldn't like it.... I want to see the tape when swore at that guy that cut you off and you showed aggression)
Should your personal vehicle have a camera rolling while your wheels do as driving is a privilege and when you are licensed to drive you agree to rules put forth by the state?
I also know that criminals don't have to wear cameras, get driver's licenses, apply for and wait for a LTC, hmmmmmmm.
Is it going to become the norm to doubt EVERYONE that may hold some element of power over you (be it not spitting in your bagel or having a parking ticket book or a loan officer) and have them have to prove being just/moral/ethical before you allow them to provide you with a service?
And because I have to mention it in this epic post ................Last I checked the reason police began an encounter with all the "victims" in these current incidents was due to their recent criminal activity, some (gasp!!!) even reported by an average citizen (referred to as a call for SERVICE) !
Now I've been short changed by the fast food cashier, may not have faith in members of public office (who seem to always be in the press and guilty of some white collar crime), oh and the auto mechanic that might have not quite done my brakes/engine right and endangered my families lives, oh members of the media who have blatantly lied and provided inflammatory false info effecting public opinion and potential safety, oh and what subtle one sided political messages are being provided to my school aged child dependent on teachers opinion.......... Now I can't even trust a comedian for gods sake!!!!
Why not body cameras for all public servants and maybe even private businesses that have the potential to commit crimes or anyone that can do ME wrong????????????? (I know alot of places of business are monitored by video but not necessarily audio and they don't "need" to retain it for years.)
What would peoples opinions be if all LTC holders had to wear body cameras while they carried, even if they never used their weapon??? (I know the answer here, I'm quite aware of 2A but I bet you wouldn't like it.... I want to see the tape when swore at that guy that cut you off and you showed aggression)
Should your personal vehicle have a camera rolling while your wheels do as driving is a privilege and when you are licensed to drive you agree to rules put forth by the state?
I also know that criminals don't have to wear cameras, get driver's licenses, apply for and wait for a LTC, hmmmmmmm.
Is it going to become the norm to doubt EVERYONE that may hold some element of power over you (be it not spitting in your bagel or having a parking ticket book or a loan officer) and have them have to prove being just/moral/ethical before you allow them to provide you with a service?
And because I have to mention it in this epic post ................Last I checked the reason police began an encounter with all the "victims" in these current incidents was due to their recent criminal activity, some (gasp!!!) even reported by an average citizen (referred to as a call for SERVICE) !
- police officers are public servants while the sandwich guy at dunking donuts is not. I can choose to not interact with him but many officers are under the impression that all their questions have to be answered before you walk away.
-the comparison between requirements to be a cop and the requirements criminals have is weak. A criminal is in a outlawed state of being and is a criminal due to a poor choice of actions and is not an occupation. Police officer is an occupation thus credentials are needed to attempt to ensure that he or she is capable of their job. Those credentials are not foolproof nor will they ever be because humans are not infallible and no form of linear tests can ensure good physical, mental, moral performance. I.e. Many licensed drivers are at fault for needless accidents. Many l.t.c. holders have and will continue to use their lawfully owned guns for crime.
- your comparison between independent businesses and government officials is not great either. If my employer wants to video and audio record me, then so be it. I can weigh out the benefits and leave him if I want. I don't think the government should mandate that as it is a private business whose interests are from those who either own the business or purchase services there. Don't like that we don't audio record? Go purchase your goods elsewhere.
Government employees however are employed by THE PEOPLE. We the people cannot personally opt out of paying taxes or services our first responders provide (as far as I know). We cannot choose not to drive on roads belonging to the state or federal government. We also can't keep driving when we see blue lights behind us.
- cops and ltc holders are not parallel. They can be one or both. Carrying a gun is your right which shall not be infringed. Being a paid cop is a privilege subject to the department which is subject to the government elected by We the people.
- on your last point. Yes I agree that these "victims" we're engaging in criminal activity and it is my personal opinion that given the facts, some of these homicides were justified. This does not change the fact that use of lethal force should be assessed in real time and not predetermined by the report of what the suspect did/ who they are.
That being said, I am tired of my Facebook blowing up from all the racebait followers. There are plenty of other cases where the cops actually do wrong without question. Just look at most open carry, illegal checkpoint videos. But those don't make good fodder for the media.
I hope cops get compensated well for doing good work but make no mistake, government job should never be the job with the best perks. There are countries where being a government employee is just about the only thing that pays...in those countries they call each other comrade.
Biff Quizler
NES Member
Not necessary making an argument, though I did jump a bit! Just projecting how far 100% video accountability should/is going to be expected if made "standard" within a socially based, unpredictable profession. Businesses, especially those reliant on or seeking gov't contracts, could impose same of their employees..... no?
Should entire surgeries and personnel involved be routinely video'd to enable unlimited Monday morning quarterbacking to evaluate for malpractice (hospitals/insurance are frequently subsidized by the gov't)? Damn, my back isn't 100% fixed or that patients heart didn't respond like ones in medical texts, that bad outcome must have been malpractice.
Perhaps video recording in every classroom and 24/7 recording in rooms of Dept of Child Services homes????
Just saying....... at some point professionals have to be trusted to do what they were trained to do and not put on electronic display. That threshold is up to the general population however people in glass houses....
There will ALWAYS be someone who finds a degree of fault in another person's spontaneous reaction and human behavior. Will the video reviewers be video'd as well?
Biff Quizler
NES Member
True.
I don't necessarily agree but I have no knowledge of your personal interactions and this may be true for you.
Wasn't trying to compare requirements for Cops vs criminals. Just looking at the standards society has set forth for that profession, which as you correctly point out is not foolproof but is the current legally established standard which is a more strict standard that those needed to work in other occupations. Threw in the criminal don't care comply to any standards thing as a rough follow up.
I have no problem with no audio or not videoing everything. What if it was mandated in the profession that you chose and were trained in? Yes, you would still have the option of leaving that profession. Do tax breaks and contracts enable the government to require things in the civilian sector? I believe they highly influence them such as drug screening. Wasn't looking to compare, more point out that there is questionable crossover between private and gov't sectors.
Gov't employees are employed by the gov't which ideally is created, regulated and maintained by the people. I don't think that criminals would personally hire or sign LEO's paychecks. Driving?.....you CAN choose not to drive. Taxes, yeah no escape.
Thus why I mentioned vaguely hearing about 2A, and presented as a "put yourself in a position" type of thing. However, in this current political environment, (think CA, NY and CT) is someone actually trying to impose this really that far fetched?
I agree, lethal force is an event that should always be reviewed, however a factor that must be considered (and not necessarily captured by a single camera angle) is what the mindset of the person is. That mindset is dependent on their previous interactions with the po-pos and events such as if they know they just committed a felonious crime and being caught will be life changing. I have to believe that that subject is going to choose between giving up and admitting his guilt (probably not), hoping the cop doesn't know/discover or doing what they have to in order to escape, to include killing a cop. That seems like a large piece of evidence that should be available to the Grand Jury to ponder.
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Gonna keep this one short as it's getting late and I don't wanna drop the ipad on my nose falling asleep again!
- I have had all good interactions with 5-0 but I am better spoken than a teen high on robitussin and skittles. I was basing that opinion on many open carry stops, stop and frisk videos. I fly under the radar but would like to think I would plead the 4th and 5th and be on my merry way if I genuinely felt harassed.
-second one is easy. Fight like hell like I do for my gun rights. Liberties being taken away aren't hypothetical, it's already happened! Not as concerned about transparency as I am about the principle of having big brother breathe down my neck and not even be shy about it.
-choosing not to drive when you pay taxes is like paying for cable but not ever watching tv. Even worse! You can cancel cable, you can't opt out of paying your taxes!
-mindset plays a role in moral justification or perhaps motive at best. If the actions and suspect are undisputed, and just cause is the only remaining question, the action is either right or wrong. A murderer is a murderer regardless of whether he ate breakfast, feared or didn't fear the cops, going through a divorce etc. etc. if lethal force was not the best and only option, it is murder.
In response to that last line:
http://youtu.be/Ly_gZWmRDvE
- I have had all good interactions with 5-0 but I am better spoken than a teen high on robitussin and skittles. I was basing that opinion on many open carry stops, stop and frisk videos. I fly under the radar but would like to think I would plead the 4th and 5th and be on my merry way if I genuinely felt harassed.
-second one is easy. Fight like hell like I do for my gun rights. Liberties being taken away aren't hypothetical, it's already happened! Not as concerned about transparency as I am about the principle of having big brother breathe down my neck and not even be shy about it.
-choosing not to drive when you pay taxes is like paying for cable but not ever watching tv. Even worse! You can cancel cable, you can't opt out of paying your taxes!
-mindset plays a role in moral justification or perhaps motive at best. If the actions and suspect are undisputed, and just cause is the only remaining question, the action is either right or wrong. A murderer is a murderer regardless of whether he ate breakfast, feared or didn't fear the cops, going through a divorce etc. etc. if lethal force was not the best and only option, it is murder.
In response to that last line:
http://youtu.be/Ly_gZWmRDvE
namedpipes
NES Member
What a load of crap.
When was the last time that cheating clerk at Burger King shot and killed a customer, never mind just beat them up? Not gonna lie. It could well have happened once or twice.
And how many times in the past month have police done this to the people they are supposed to be protecting?
Justify it any way you want, which is what criminals do best. A shocking percentage of police are using their "official" status to get away with crimes that would put anyone else in jail for decades.
And worse, most of the rest of you either tolerate it or make minor noise that something may have been wrong in that case but in the end, you DO nothing to stop it.
Disgusting.
I feel like it is black people who are racist these days. But I am a white minority so what do I know.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
I would be curious to see how many white people are killed by police every year.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
you are in public, you have no expectation of privacy
That isn't an argument for everyone to have cameras. It's an argument for why everyone should have guns. "AN armed society is a polite society."
All the jobs you mentioned, other than police officers, are private sector jobs that don't come with blanket immunity from prosecution for anything you do while wearing your burger king uniform. WTF ever happened to personal responsibility? If the guy at burger king jumps over the counter and you, defend yourself. Then have him and the employer held responsible, charged, whatever. But the people "we" pay to be the line between us and the shitbags should be held to a higher standard.
If I'm running a business. No one is going to tell me I don't have the right to know what my employees are doing during every second of time that I am paying them to do a job. If your salary comes out of my pocket, be it through payroll or taxation, you are my employee. Period.
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I think Derek nailed it. Did anyone care about race after 9/11? Everyone for the most part, was unified. We were all on the same team.
Obama gets elected, starts running his mouth about things like Skip Gates, Trayvon etc, and we see an absurd increase in welfare (to include the "Obama phone" lady from Ohio) and the people who pull the cart, the 53%, start scratching their heads thinking, "How does this work?"
If they really cared about black lives, Chicago would be their protest point. 500 deaths per year, vs one justified shooting by a cop in some shythole town in MO.
Obama gets elected, starts running his mouth about things like Skip Gates, Trayvon etc, and we see an absurd increase in welfare (to include the "Obama phone" lady from Ohio) and the people who pull the cart, the 53%, start scratching their heads thinking, "How does this work?"
If they really cared about black lives, Chicago would be their protest point. 500 deaths per year, vs one justified shooting by a cop in some shythole town in MO.
knoxy
NES Member
I don't know about killed, but this white boy has seen white cops beat down peaceful white people for no ****ing reason, because the cops showed up at the wrong house. And then cover it up, praise themselves, and threaten the victim's family if they pressed the issue.
Honest people know it's not just a black thing and it happens all the time.
the_shootist
Banned
It has Derek, it has!!!
I can see cops actually afraid to do any real police work when it comes to blacks for fear of what will happen to them.
It's gonna be free reign for the minorities the way things are going..... gangs in cities riding around in the back of pickups, just like in the other third world countries.
It's gonna be free reign for the minorities the way things are going..... gangs in cities riding around in the back of pickups, just like in the other third world countries.
Horrible
NES Member
THIS! Thank you. So sick of hearing about this race crap. I truly believe that this is a giant red herring meant to distract us from the real problems in this country (which most often are caused by politicians)
![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
MachineHead
NES Member
Guys like Charles Barkley and Ben Carson have been telling it just like it is in recent interviews.
It's ridiculous how these guys are chastised by their own race for behaving like dignified human beings.
It's ridiculous how these guys are chastised by their own race for behaving like dignified human beings.
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I'm sure that similar incidents happen every day with Caucasian suspects, but they never make the news. Why is that? Because, most people realize that there ARE scumbags (regardless of skin color) that commit crimes and sometimes get hurt/killed in the process of apprehension. It's really ridiculous that we are even having this conversation so many decades and generations after evolving from segregation and slavery. I have to believe that it is the so-called "minorities" (which is statistically bullshit these days) that are keeping the fires blazing by calling every situation that involves a white peacekeeper and a black suspect/criminal racially motivated. It would be super interesting to see how far things could be pushed if the situation was reversed - like with a black officer shooting a white suspect... My bet is there wouldn't be any buzz at all, and certainly not nationwide rioting.
Palladin
NES Member
Meanwhile Chicago has topped 415 dead, surpassing last year's number of 413...with a killing every 19hrs, they should be able to add 25+ to that number easily.
http://heyjackass.com/
And what do we hear from the protesters/Jackson/Sharpton ???
*crickets*
http://heyjackass.com/
And what do we hear from the protesters/Jackson/Sharpton ???
*crickets*
Odd part is much more white men are killed by the PoPo than black. Funnybthing is bloomturd was the one who want to arm leos like the military and give them a pass on any gun bans because they be the ones who can handle those killy devices
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