Un-Popular or not: 40S&W vs 357 Sig

If NES has taught me anything, .40 sucks and is for pussies, 10mm and 45 are the only calibers manly enough to carry in your semi auto.

I rarely if ever see 357 sig in stores 40 is there in droves and even 10mm has been pretty available lately

In general reading here....40 sucks and is a pussified round. But is ok for people to shoot 9mm and plenty of love for it here because 40 kicks too much. Whatever that means.

I carry the G32 357 sig with 124 grain, Nosler 1400+ fps, 600 ft/lb muzzle energy underwood ammo that i get for $20 a box of 20 rounds TMD. Most of the area around my house is bear country and its nice to have a CCW that would have ballistics similar to the 357 mag. and still be able to carry covered with only a tshirt on.

I also have a LW .40 barrel for the same gun that i shoot reloads out of. Those .40 kaboom reloads that we all hear about. Still waiting to blow it up. The LW barrel is just as reliable as the stock 357 barrel, never had an FTF, so if I had to carry it as a .40 I would. I don't reload the sig round....40 brass is easy to find on the ground. 357 not so much.
 
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For those in the TL;DR category.


That's a great video. Tells the story very well. The guy in the video is pretty entertaining in a dry 90's style sense of humor kind of way.
 
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In November 2015 I got a part time job working at one of the busiest gun stores in Mass, seeing as I get discounts on ammo I bought another G31and started shooting .357 Sig again. It's a kick ass round (my opinion) and we do sell it to the fringe people that like that caliber. As far as the 9mm vs 40 vs 45 debate, 9mm sales are through the roof with 45 a very distant 2nd, then 40 in 3rd. We don't really even stock new 40 caliber guns anymore, they just sit collecting dust. Nothing scientific here, just my observations....
 
Around the 30:00 minute mark on the Paul Harrell video, he describes one of the FBI agents as having fired over 20 rds from 2 mags, and getting maybe one hit, due to losing his glasses. However, the wiki of the '86 Miami shootout says that Grogan was the FBI agent who lost his glasses, but Grogan only fired 9 rounds and it was Dove who fired over 20 rds, but Dove got several hits on the suspects. Harrell also says earlier that the Miami shootout was so well reconstructed, studied and documented that there is very little unknown or disputed fact. Anybody know what gives?

Harrell apparently also has gone through the experience of having to shoot and kill a guy in self defense and successfully defend a manslaughter charge. http://www.wallowacountychieftain.c...reed-of-manslaughter-charges-in-troy-shooting
 
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In November 2015 I got a part time job working at one of the busiest gun stores in Mass, seeing as I get discounts on ammo I bought another G31and started shooting .357 Sig again. It's a kick ass round (my opinion) and we do sell it to the fringe people that like that caliber. As far as the 9mm vs 40 vs 45 debate, 9mm sales are through the roof with 45 a very distant 2nd, then 40 in 3rd. We don't really even stock new 40 caliber guns anymore, they just sit collecting dust. Nothing scientific here, just my observations....

Even more of a reason to buy a 40. Wait until another ammo run and 9mm is cleared off the shelves.
 
Even more of a reason to buy a 40. Wait until another ammo run and 9mm is cleared off the shelves.

Right now 40 is in a sweet spot : unpopular enough to result in cheap guns, popular enough that ammo is abundant, available, and cheap. It will be interesting to see what happens to availability and prices as guns go out of production.


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Right now 40 is in a sweet spot : unpopular enough to result in cheap guns, popular enough that ammo is abundant, available, and cheap. It will be interesting to see what happens to availability and prices as guns go out of production.


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I don't know if it will. It seems like the calibers are consolidating around 9 40 and 45. I bought a 40 so I can swap the barrels to 9mm if I wish. That and been through a few ammo panics and 9mm was very hard to find. If you have have no ammo-you just have a club.
 
in my circle the explosive growth of IDPA followed by USPSA Production division and the resurgence of Steel Challenge , plus the economy and avalability of ammo components pretty much pushed 9 way past the previously very popular 40. 357 Sig? I dunno, I saw one once.
 
I don't own either just for simplicity sake and cost of ammo.
I am trying to keep the calibers in my life to a minimum I am generally all about 9mm for semi-autos, .38/.357 for revolvers, and .223/5.56 for rifles. I feel like all of these are fully capable for training and for defensive/offensive applications.
They are also probably the most common and affordable ammo's any you will almost never have to worry about not finding them at any place that sells ammo. Also this means I can maximize the ammo I have on hand and stashed away.
I also have handful of .45's, 22's, and .380's
I've flirted with .44's, .45 Colt and 10mm just for funzies. And it's only a matter of time before I dive into .308, 7.62x36/51, or 300BLK.
 
In November 2015 I got a part time job working at one of the busiest gun stores in Mass, seeing as I get discounts on ammo I bought another G31and started shooting .357 Sig again. It's a kick ass round (my opinion) and we do sell it to the fringe people that like that caliber. As far as the 9mm vs 40 vs 45 debate, 9mm sales are through the roof with 45 a very distant 2nd, then 40 in 3rd. We don't really even stock new 40 caliber guns anymore, they just sit collecting dust. Nothing scientific here, just my observations....

The .40 S&W, after a meteoric rise in popularity, does seem to be losing ground, with lots of deals on 40 cal guns out there to be had right now. Many PD's have dumped it and gone back to the 9mm, while some have stepped up to the .45 ACP, like the Mass State Police. There are lots of PD trade-ins on the market now, further saturating the market and pushing .40 prices down.

Most new calibers introduced in the last 50 years have failed in the marketplace, while the older established calibers remain popular, such as .38 Special. .357 Mag, .44 Mag, 9mm, .45 ACP, .223, .308, 30-06, 7mm, .30-30.
Think about all the calibers that have hit the market and failed just in the last 20 years, such as the Winchester Short Magnums (WSM), Winchester Super Short Magnums (WSSM), Remington Ultra Magnums (RUM). These were entire families of cartridges, not just single chamberings, and they all failed to gain a foothold in the market. There was also the .45 GAP, .460 S&W, .204 Ruger and .480 Ruger. Not necessarily bad chamberings, but they didn't sell in sufficient quantities to justify remaining in production. BTW, the discontinued Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .480 Ruger has become a highly sought after collectors item.
 
40 S&W became popular after some heavy marketing when the federal AWB took away hi caps mags in new guns. It was marketed as nearly equivalent to 45acp in knockdown with full 10 rounds fitting into magazines, even in compact autos. It was becoming the new cheap ammo for a while. I bought a 40 just to have one. I don't shoot it often but I don't hate it.

40 S&W isn't a terrible round but it does have some downfalls:
Since 40 S&W and 9mm aren't too different in size you can generally swap magazines for them in guns like the Beretta 92 and 96. That means it is possible to put a 9mm into a model 96 and yes, it will fire...not with good results though. A mag filled with 40 will slip into a 92 but the round won't chamber, though it will try.
From a reloading standpoint 40 is abundant on the ground and in brass buckets at the range. I don't pick up 40 any more. Not so much with .357 sig. I'd guess a 2500 to 1 ratio of 40 S&W brass to .357 sig where I shoot. I see equal numbers of 9mm and 40 but I'd venture more 9mm is scooped up for reloading.
The fired 40 S&W case mouth is equal to or slightly larger than the case head so a stacked case loader like the Lee Loadmaster and Pro 1000 use creates a unique issue. The case being inserted to the shell plate will tend to hang up a bit on the case above and is sometimes launched across the room with a hearty ping.
Buying 40 caliber bullets is costly compared to 9mm bullets. I cast my 40s. But I don't load it often. I load 9mm a lot but can buy them cheaper (quicker) than I can cast them.

Will the 40 S&W go away? I doubt it. There are too many 40 cal guns in holsters and safes to see the ammo disappear. It is possible there will be fewer options but it'll always be there. I do wish more 10mm guns were available.
 
I admit, my first pistol was a .40. It was the 90's. Still have it. Have probably not shot it in a decade. I still have a lot of Golddots in .40 as it was my carry piece for a number of years.
 
I admit, my first pistol was a .40. It was the 90's. Still have it. Have probably not shot it in a decade. I still have a lot of Golddots in .40 as it was my carry piece for a number of years.

Ahh......the .40 in the 90s! Brings back memories just like mullets and "guess" jeans.

- - - Updated - - -
 
Always wore Levis. Hair was a borderline mullet until 94. Mostly it was just long and fit in at a Motorhead concert.

Hey......I batted .500 on that one. At least I got you on the mullet.

I never had a mullet. enlisted in 1990 so............I missed that fad thank god.
 
The .40 S&W, after a meteoric rise in popularity, does seem to be losing ground, with lots of deals on 40 cal guns out there to be had right now. Many PD's have dumped it and gone back to the 9mm, while some have stepped up to the .45 ACP, like the Mass State Police. There are lots of PD trade-ins on the market now, further saturating the market and pushing .40 prices down.

Most new calibers introduced in the last 50 years have failed in the marketplace, while the older established calibers remain popular, such as .38 Special. .357 Mag, .44 Mag, 9mm, .45 ACP, .223, .308, 30-06, 7mm, .30-30.
Think about all the calibers that have hit the market and failed just in the last 20 years, such as the Winchester Short Magnums (WSM), Winchester Super Short Magnums (WSSM), Remington Ultra Magnums (RUM). These were entire families of cartridges, not just single chamberings, and they all failed to gain a foothold in the market. There was also the .45 GAP, .460 S&W, .204 Ruger and .480 Ruger. Not necessarily bad chamberings, but they didn't sell in sufficient quantities to justify remaining in production. BTW, the discontinued Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in .480 Ruger has become a highly sought after collectors item.

I agree with the spirit of this post minus some of the niche caliber skepticism. I don't see .460 going anywhere. It isn't meant to be a mass market caliber. Also, .480 Ruger Alaskans are still in production, I can order one right now from Acusport. I wont argue that some of the craft magnum rifle chamberings have been an exercise in redundancy, but isn't choice a great thing!
 
I admit, my first pistol was a .40. It was the 90's. Still have it. Have probably not shot it in a decade. I still have a lot of Golddots in .40 as it was my carry piece for a number of years.

I have a G35 that has a 9mm conversion barrel installed before it fired its first shot. I got a deal on it that pretty much covered the cost of the barrel.
 
357 Sig ammo from good maker (Underwood) will give you over 600 ft. lbs, which is basically 10mm territory!
 
357 Sig ammo from good maker (Underwood) will give you over 600 ft. lbs, which is basically 10mm territory!

This....Underwood chrony's averages 1550 fps out of my G32. Above the advertised speed and energy ratings......good stuff! Its as close to 10mm as you can get and still have a true summer carry tshirt gun.

G29 just a little too fat for me....for shorts and a tshirt.
 
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357 Sig ammo from good maker (Underwood) will give you over 600 ft. lbs, which is basically 10mm territory!

.357 sig is great stuff. It would have taken over the world by now. Except it costs too much plain and simple. And its hard to reload.

Cost is one factor that drives acceptance.

Nobody can dispute the fact though that you have amazing versatility with this caliber.
 
.357 sig is great stuff. It would have taken over the world by now. Except it costs too much plain and simple. And its hard to reload.

Cost is one factor that drives acceptance.

Nobody can dispute the fact though that you have amazing versatility with this caliber.

This is true for plinking ammo....and why I have a drop in LW .40 conversion barrel for my G32. I reload and shoot a lot of .40 out of it. and .40 empty brass is easy to find on the range.

Barrel cost me 100 bucks, drops in seconds, and I can use the same mags.
 
I admit, my first pistol was a .40. It was the 90's. Still have it. Have probably not shot it in a decade. I still have a lot of Golddots in .40 as it was my carry piece for a number of years.

Yup me also. Sig 229 still have it but can't remember last time I shot it. Been toying with getting .357 barrel for it.
 
This is true for plinking ammo....and why I have a drop in LW .40 conversion barrel for my G32. I reload and shoot a lot of .40 out of it. and .40 empty brass is easy to find on the range.

Barrel cost me 100 bucks, drops in seconds, and I can use the same mags.

This. I have one for my G33 as well
 
.357 sig is great stuff. It would have taken over the world by now. Except it costs too much plain and simple. And its hard to reload.

Cost is one factor that drives acceptance.

Nobody can dispute the fact though that you have amazing versatility with this caliber.
It's my favorite pistol caliber....
 
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