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Ukraine will be fending off a Russian invasion with Mossberg 500's

I wonder if they'll be feeding them Mossy's Wolf ammo...? [rofl]

TSUSA Sales Rep: "Hey Boss?"
Sales Manager: "Yeah Williams?"
TSUSA Sales Rep: "I've got someone on the phone asking about PRIME Membership."
Sales Manager: "Who?"
TSUSA Sales Rep: "UKRAINE..."
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Alex9661 said:
Ukraine has plenty of Soviet Era AK's, produces AR15's, AR10's, licensed Tavor copies, and possibly AK's(not sure about those). Why stupid shotguns?
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Guard duty/rear echelon/door breachers/less than lethal/that's what Uncle Sugar has in stock.
 
DPR said:
Didn't we ban the import of Russian guns and ammo?
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yep. We care more for cheap ammo than freedom of others.

Alex9661 said:
Ukraine has plenty of Soviet Era AK's, produces AR15's, AR10's, licensed Tavor copies, and possibly AK's(not sure about those). Why stupid shotguns?
Click to expand...
Let's be honest: Unless NATO(aka "USA and others") floods Ukrain with troops, Ukrain will be overrun. Wanna know why? HISTORY! That's right! Ukrainians don't fight uphill battles!
In WW2, we read about partisans and how they fought the occupying forces. Well, that wasn't the case in Ukraine!
In WW2, Ukrainians welcomed German troops and many volunteered to serve in Germany's army. Very few of the front-line actions, with the vast majority of Ukrainian units used to police neighboring territories of Belarus, and Poland. They were also used to quell partisan movements in neighboring Belarus.

The ONLY example of Ukrainians being involved in the Partisan movement was this guy Kovpak(pronounced as two words "Cove" and "Pack"). This guy was something else! In 1920, he commanded a small group of "Communist fighters for collectivization". The unit raided independent farmers(aka Kulaks). It was one of many such units that took food away from Ukrainians and sent it to the cities in Russia. The result was a famous Ukrainian Famine which was responsible for millions of deaths from starvation. This guy did not rise in rank for over a decade. That is until 1935 when during the infamous Stalin's purge of 1935-1941, all his "bosses" kept getting arrested by the KGB. From a lowly manager of some dinky little shop, this guy rose in power to be the head of the regional executive council.

I could tell you about Ukrainian uprisings but there is only a couple. Ukraine is the country that gave the world Pogroms.

P.S. I am not anti-Ukranians or pro-Russian. Both countries are full of horrible history and acts. Case in point: Andrey Vlasov
 
C. Stockwell said:
Guard duty/rear echelon/door breachers/less than lethal/that's what Uncle Sugar has in stock.
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I understand all that but guard duty is totally doable with a rifle and breachers/less than lethal are mostly police/occupation force applications. I strongly doubt Ukrainian military is preparing to bust doors and quell protests in Moscow. On a serious note, Ukraine is full of shotguns of different makes and models, the infamous Berkut police unit was armed with shotguns when shooting protesters in Kyiv in 2014. I'm just curious why valuable space onboard that plane was used to transport these useless, from my point of view, things, that's all.
 
Alex9661 said:
I understand all that but guard duty is totally doable with a rifle and breachers/less than lethal are mostly police/occupation force applications. I strongly doubt Ukrainian military is preparing to bust doors and quell protests in Moscow. On a serious note, Ukraine is full of shotguns of different makes and models, the infamous Berkut police unit was armed with shotguns when shooting protesters in Kyiv in 2014. I'm just curious why valuable space onboard that plane was used to transport these useless, from my point of view, things, that's all.
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The most important part of my list is the last. When a country receives military aid from a superpower, the superpower doesn't send the best guns available. Always has been that way - when France adopted the Lebel and Russia the Mosin, the Gras and Berdan rifles when to Ethiopia. When the USSR adopted the AK, the SKSs went to anywhere that furthered Soviet foreign policy. And when we adopted the M16, the M14s went to places like Taiwan.

Don't think of this like an individual going to a gun store to buy the gun that suits him the best. Think of this like buying guns by sheer numbers and bulk. During wars, some extremely strange things show up in military inventories, like .32-40 lever guns being used in WW1 by the Royal Navy. The lever guns were immediately available and the Brits needed guns by the millions.
 
Alex9661 said:
Ukraine has plenty of Soviet Era AK's, produces AR15's, AR10's, licensed Tavor copies, and possibly AK's(not sure about those). Why stupid shotguns?
Click to expand...
Effective weapon to arm draftees and volunteers off the street with that they already know how to use, to keep boots on the ground, and possibly support guerilla efforts. Also good for guard duty, security, issue to police so they can have a long gun, etc.
 
moojpg2 said:
Idk about you but a volley of 00 Buck from 150 yards from a few hundred troops would be enough to make me keep my head down, buckshot still penetrates about 10" of ballistic gel at that range.

Bunch of pump shotguns wouldn't be the worst choice to arm the masses for urban/guerilla tactics.
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I would prefer scoped, small caliber, high velocity hunting rifles. Can't go wrong with a simple bolt action. 222, .223, .22-250 or .220 Swift. Low recoil, high velocity, flat shooting. Ammo might be an issue. Not sure what the fave calibers are over there. My only center fire rifle is a Savage bolt action. 223. It wears a 3x-9x Leupold scope. I am by no means an expert, but can easily hit man sized targets in the chest at 400 yards, which is the practical limit for this cartridge in terms of wound ballistics. I am sure a Ukrainian man or woman with the same skill as me could achieve similar results. Save the scatterguns for close combat.
 
TOM1960 said:
I would prefer scoped, small caliber, high velocity hunting rifles. Can't go wrong with a simple bolt action. 222, .223, .22-250 or .220 Swift. Low recoil, high velocity, flat shooting. Ammo might be an issue. Not sure what the fave calibers are over there. My only center fire rifle is a Savage bolt action. 223. It wears a 3x-9x Leupold scope. I am by no means an expert, but can easily hit man sized targets in the chest at 400 yards, which is the practical limit for this cartridge in terms of wound ballistics. I am sure a Ukrainian man or woman with the same skill as me could achieve similar results. Save the scatterguns for close combat.
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Yea I don't think the US gov't has crates full of Savage axis rifles in 22-250 or 220 swift to hand out lol Mossberg 500's that are collecting dust were probably their only logical choice.
 
TOM1960 said:
British troops used shotguns during the Malayan Emergency back in the 1950s and the Rhodesian military used them during the long conflict in that country. I believe some type of hybrid buck-and-ball "jungle load" was the preferred ammunition for both the British and Rhodesian forces.
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For jungle warfare, shotguns make sense. They used to make a shotgun type round for those blooper grenade launchers Americans carried in Vietnam.

Jungle warfare is up close and the spread of buck shot makes a hit on an unseen target more likely.

Not sure how much use they would be in Ukraine aside for urban warfare.
 
We could have given them our mountain pile of M4s with all the fun accessories like ACOGs and PEQ-15s but nope that was a gift to the Taliban lol.
 

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