U.S. Marine Corps picks Colt for new pistol

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Affix bayonets, duh. You think they do the Bayonet Assault Course at boot camp for no reason?!? For better or worse nobody on my deployment ran out of ammo [sad]
These are the Marines. No need for high tech gear. They can hit the beaches, find a washed up plastic spork, and still get the job done!
 

Scarecrow

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[rofl][laugh2] Not to bust your balls, but you guys put 31 rounds into a cow and didn't land a kill shot? I have seen countless cows put down with a single .22 round to the head.
Busting the wrong balls, these rounds were all fired directly into the head from a range of less than 5 feet. Cow had charged one of our guys and tossed him, then just fallen over and was laying down frothing at the mouth, the 5.56 stuff was just ricocheting, or penetrating into the bone and being stopped. The 9mm that was fired didn't appear to penetrate, but there was a lot of blood by that point, so it could have penetrated without leaving a wound visible on the surface.

Then again, maybe it was just the animals in Iraq, as a dog that came at us took 10 rounds from the bradley's co-ax (7.62mm) to go down, and it charged the tank after the first round impacted. Another dog took a bullet to the head, from every person in our patrol as they walked by in our attempts to put it out of it's misery, and it was still snapping teeth and growling after 30+ 5.56 rounds. LT's 9mm stopped it.

Insurgent running across a field took over 100 rounds of 5.56 to the chest... we found his bloody shirt at a doctors office the next day, and it looked like it got run over by a lawnmower, but the guy managed to get to the doctors office after being shot to hell by 5.56.

I could continue listing personal experiences with the failure of the 5.56mm round to stop the target, but anyone who loves it won't listen and anyone who has actually used it to try and stop a bad guy doesn't need to hear it.

You say this but some of us know better. I'm guessing you're "one of those guys" that has never owned a polymer framed handgun?

The only way to kill a Glock/XD/etc really with physics is to shoot it. That's the only way I've seen a polymer gun fail in such a fashion. If bullets are hitting your sidearm, you have bigger problems, more than likely, then the kind of gun you are carrying.

-Mike
Never owned a polymer framed gun, though I am eyeballing an xdm right now. I don't say that I wouldn't trust a polymer gun because I have never owned one, I say it because we had STEEL items breaking due to the stresses we put on them. With all my gear on, I weigh over 330 pounds(I weigh 155 normally), and I have watched rucksack frames snap, knives break, barrels get bent, and sights snap off. A polymer gun would "probably" not hold up to the stresses it was put under in the line of duty.

Another point on the "a g21 would be better" point: the average army soldier gets the opportunity to fire about 100 rounds a year through their primary weapon(typically an m16/m4 variant). The guys using an m9 get to put around 50 rounds through it a year. If they are not in the middle of a range fire, do you think they can draw their weapon out of the arms room to practice drawing and firing? I wouldn't trust most of them to have trigger discipline enough to draw a glock without NDing the ground, themselves, oor their buddies 3/5 times; at least the 1911 has a safety on it that will keep them from firing randomly when they draw the weapon by the trigger. Hell, when I deployed I didn't even know we HAD m9's until they issued me one!
 
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Dench

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Busting the wrong balls, these rounds were all fired directly into the head from a range of less than 5 feet. Cow had charged one of our guys and tossed him, then just fallen over and was laying down frothing at the mouth, the 5.56 stuff was just ricocheting, or penetrating into the bone and being stopped. The 9mm that was fired didn't appear to penetrate, but there was a lot of blood by that point, so it could have penetrated without leaving a wound visible on the surface.

Then again, maybe it was just the animals in Iraq, as a dog that came at us took 10 rounds from the bradley's co-ax (7.62mm) to go down, and it charged the tank after the first round impacted. Another dog took a bullet to the head, from every person in our patrol as they walked by in our attempts to put it out of it's misery, and it was still snapping teeth and growling after 30+ 5.56 rounds. LT's 9mm stopped it.

Insurgent running across a field took over 100 rounds of 5.56 to the chest... we found his bloody shirt at a doctors office the next day, and it looked like it got run over by a lawnmower, but the guy managed to get to the doctors office after being shot to hell by 5.56.

I could continue listing personal experiences with the failure of the 5.56mm round to stop the target, but anyone who loves it won't listen and anyone who has actually used it to try and stop a bad guy doesn't need to hear it.
when i was in i walked into an A-10 range. I took about 20-25 rounds of 30mm to various parts of my body. I was a little hurt, but I managed to walk out of the impact area, climb the base fence, get some mcdonalds, went awol for a night and then the next morning i went to the base clinic to make sure the wounds were cleaned up. I didnt want an infection.

The army needs to buff 30mm, i guess.
 

Scarecrow

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when i was in i walked into an A-10 range. I took about 20-25 rounds of 30mm to various parts of my body. I was a little hurt, but I managed to walk out of the impact area, climb the base fence, get some mcdonalds, went awol for a night and then the next morning i went to the base clinic to make sure the wounds were cleaned up. I didnt want an infection.

The army needs to buff 30mm, i guess.
...riiiiight. 30mm is totally like 5.56.



Obvious troll is obvious.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Gecko45.
WTH is a gecko45?
 

Scarecrow

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Mall ninja...

k.

I could point to my dd-214, or my marksmanship qual scores, or even direct you to some of the guys who saw this stuff with me first hand, but as we have already degenerated to name calling, I'll just suffice to say:

IBTL.
 
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My grandfather once told me to never throw anything away. What is deemed to be useless will become the next greatest thing 30-40 years later. First disco clothes returned, now the .45 ACP returns. When are 8 track tapes coming back? Yes, I still own some for some unknown reason.
 
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Dench

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Mall ninja...

k.

I could point to my dd-214, or my marksmanship qual scores, or even direct you to some of the guys who saw this stuff with me first hand, but as we have already degenerated to name calling, I'll just suffice to say:

IBTL.
ok, so we can do this.

I dont need to see your dd-214. congratualtions, you were in the .mil.

So now on to what you said, and so theres no confusion, ill quote what you said directly.

Insurgent running across a field took over 100 rounds of 5.56 to the chest... we found his bloody shirt at a doctors office the next day, and it looked like it got run over by a lawnmower, but the guy managed to get to the doctors office after being shot to hell by 5.56.
So a person was shot 100 times? How do you know this? Was this persons body found? i've never heard of a person taking 100 rounds of 5.56x45 "to the chest" and living. It doesnt sound real. it sounds made up.

Then again, maybe it was just the animals in Iraq, as a dog that came at us took 10 rounds from the bradley's co-ax (7.62mm) to go down, and it charged the tank after the first round impacted. Another dog took a bullet to the head, from every person in our patrol as they walked by in our attempts to put it out of it's misery, and it was still snapping teeth and growling after 30+ 5.56 rounds. LT's 9mm stopped it.
Was this dog an elephant sized breed? And then we have "10 rounds from a 7.62." thats also retarded. In line with the completly made up story that your telling us, each person in your patrol then walked by this invincible dog, shot it and was still unable to kill after "30+ rounds?" So it took, according to you, over 10 rounds of 7.62 plus over 30 rounds of 5.56 plus at least one round of 9mm to kill a dog.

I have watched a 9mm round bounce off the head of a cow, followed by a 30 round mag of 5.56... we ended up having to use 7.62 from a confiscated ak to kill the damned thing.
Oh look, another invinicble animal. So not only can it bounce 9mm off its head, it can also take 30 rounds of 5.56. But wait! The magical 7.62x39 from the AK could kill it! Oh wait…… why couldn’t the 7.62x51 from the M1 kill that dog…. I’m so confused….

I point at the m16 versus the M14 for proof. 30 rounds in a caliber that has a 50/50 chance of actually stopping your enemy, or 20 rounds in something that only takes a single round to drop a damned cow. If everything works EXACTLY as trained, the m16 can stop 10 bad guys per mag (2 in the chest, one in the head "winning hearts and minds"), the m14 can stop 20... more if the bastards line up for you.
Wait im confused again. The 7.62x51 as fired out of the M14 can kill people no problem, but not the dogs…… hmmmm….. so 7.62 (in either 39 or 51) is good for cows and people, but not dogs? Ok, I got it now.


Questions/comments?
 

Dench

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Wow. A DD214. Haven't seen one of those since they typed it up for me in the admin shop.

Here's where I think we stand:


  1. You were never in the military.
  2. You were in the military, but never deployed.
  3. You were in the military, deployed, but never went outside the wire.
  4. You were in the military, deployed, went outside the wire, but never really did shit.
  5. You are a badass mother-****ing US Marine Ranger DEVGRU SEAL Combat Controller Delta TACELET Operator.

I'm not banking on number 5.
Hey I'm a 4!

Woo woo [rofl]
 
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IMHO, I like the 1911 in .45 ACP better than the Beretta M9 in 9mm for self-defense purposes (I have both). I like the fact that when someone gets hit with the .45ACP, they "usually" go to the ground...which is a god thing. [smile]

Oh, and IBTL...[popcorn]
 

mark056

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Well ballistics is a very imperfect thing. The truth is nothing in a pistol caliber is guaranteed successful 100 percent of the time and the same goes for rifle calibers too. There have been reports of great success with the 5.56 and reports of massive failure of that round, these reports go all the way back to Viet-Nam. Until we can get something that is shoulder fired that delivers the ballistics of a round the size of telephone pole traveling 10,000 mph, there are always going to be conflicting information about the efficiency of small arms ammunition. There are simply too many variables.

This thread is getting pretty silly.

For those who relate anecdotes regarding their own experiences in combat, I can only say I wasn't there and neither were those who have commented.
 
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Scarecrow

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So a person was shot 100 times? How do you know this? Was this persons body found? i've never heard of a person taking 100 rounds of 5.56x45 "to the chest" and living. It doesnt sound real. it sounds made up.
Rough count of the holes in the shirt. Estimate between 80 and 120 individual bullet holes.
Was this dog an elephant sized breed? And then we have "10 rounds from a 7.62." thats also retarded. In line with the completely made up story that your telling us,
10 rounds from the coax on the bradley, yes.
each person in your patrol then walked by this invincible dog, shot it and was still unable to kill after "30+ rounds?"
different dog. First one was in a field we were dismounting in for a cordon and search mission, the one that the patrol shot was coming under a fence. Platoon element on the foot patrol was 36 soldiers, as I recall, and everyone shot it as they went by because it was making a horrific amount of noise and still trying to get to the passing soldiers.
Oh look, another invinicble animal. So not only can it bounce 9mm off its head, it can also take 30 rounds of 5.56. But wait! The magical 7.62x39 from the AK could kill it! Oh wait…… why couldn’t the 7.62x51 from the M1 kill that dog…. I’m so confused….
It could be because you don't listen very well. Cow took 30+ 5.56 and some 9mm fire to it's head. Given that I was standing some 25 feet away to the rear pulling security while they dealt with the homicidal cow, I did not see all the rounds land, but I did walk right by it, and it had a whole hell of a lot of powder burns and torn skin on it's head, but only one exit wound that I saw.
Wait im confused again. The 7.62x51 as fired out of the M14 can kill people no problem, but not the dogs…… hmmmm….. so 7.62 (in either 39 or 51) is good for cows and people, but not dogs? Ok, I got it now.
*shrug* I saw it first hand, you don't have to believe any of it; calling someone a "mall ninja" and declaring their stories are made up because they defy what is normal just shows an amazing lack of belief in what is possible. While I was out there, I also saw a bradley try to run over a 10 foot tall palm tree and fail because the tree would not break. This same tree took 4 blocks of c4 strapped to the side of it and all it did was blow the bark off. It ended up taking a full satchel charge(20 pounds of c4) and 60 or 70 wraps of det cord before it fell over. I saw a smoke round for the m203 grenade launcher bounce off a dumpster instead of detonating, and an he round for the same detonate 5 feet in front of the operator.

Just because something does not fit into "the way things work", does not mean it did not happen. People have lived after falling thousands of feet with faulty parachutes while others have died from a 15 foot drop; this whole thing was just my own personal experiences with 5.56mm, I think it is a useless round and many would agree with me. Being a troll because you have never seen the same is just ignorant.
Questions/comments?
I'll refrain from commenting, but I do have a question: Have you EVER commented on someone's post with anything constructive, or do you just prefer negativity?
 

Dench

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Have you EVER commented on someone's post with anything constructive, or do you just prefer negativity?

it depends. hey do me a favor, get your reply straight. i wasn't the one who called you a mall ninja.

Anyway, don't worry about it. Your fake invincible palm tree (4th [or 5th, its confusing now with multiple dogs] invincible animal/plant you've named in this thread so far) story is also fake. I used to be a big bad combat engineer. you're full of shit, or exaggerate your stories till they lose credibility. either / or.

just tell us how it was or dont tell it it all. no one likes a story packed full of exaggeration or straight up lies.
 
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ColdDayInHell

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Why does every thread turn into a pissing match? Chill out guys, if you were both in the service then you've done more than most people on here so take credit when it's due.

A .223 is deadly but wasn't designed to kill but to incapacitate the enemy and it does it's job well. The 308 is a big enough round to take down good sized deer and other large game. Just try and get along, Dench you always throw jabs at members , maybe Scarecrow didn't take it as well as others.


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