U.S. Marine Corps picks Colt for new pistol

Status
Not open for further replies.
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
10,785
Likes
1,881
Location
Grid 17S with bugout longterm shelter and great fi
Interesting that the "elite marine" group has .45's and the remainder of the military has 9mm
9mm is a universal NATO round, guess the DoD wanted to be NATO friendly when they made that choice. Nice to see the Leathernecks going back to what works, Colts and 45's. Next we'll see the Tommy gun making a comeback, We could only hope.
 

ochmude

Marine Veteran
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
6,315
Likes
1,785
Location
Yuma, AZ
Lets hope they sell the supposedly worn out guns to civilians since its cheaper to just buy more than to rebuild
Dude, the 1911's that they're going to be replacing aren't "supposedly" worn out...they're beat to s***. Most of them have been limping along since the 1950's.
 

mark056

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,986
Likes
3,533
Location
Leoburg/Fitchminster area
At the end of the day, when it is all said and done, the Rampant Pony prevails over S&W's, Kimbers, Les Baer's, Springfield Armory, and a whole host of others. Who has been making 1911's longer?

Good for Colt, and they seem to be coming back.

Now Colt, get Mass Compliant, bring back the Pocket Nine (designed and marketed in the late 90's it would leave the S&W Shield in the dust, IMO) the Colt .357 (the last revolver named, not to be confused with an earlier product, but an improvement over the venerable Detective Special).
 

GunGrey

Banned
Rating - 100%
10   0   0
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
6,640
Likes
1,189
Location
The Western side of HELL
Dude, the 1911's that they're going to be replacing aren't "supposedly" worn out...they're beat to s***. Most of them have been limping along since the 1950's.
Dude

"The contract is built so we can re-buy the approved acquisitions objective three times, so we can buy 4,000 guns three times," Clark said. "These pistols will be getting used a lot; deployed a lot so the guns are going to get shot out."

MARSOC operators stay on a rigorous deployment cycle, "so they fire a lot of rounds. It's a 15,000-round plus [training] work-up to a deployment," Clark said.
"It's more efficient to replace the guns over time instead of attempting to completely rebuild them."
 

mark056

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,986
Likes
3,533
Location
Leoburg/Fitchminster area
Dude, the 1911's that they're going to be replacing aren't "supposedly" worn out...they're beat to s***. Most of them have been limping along since the 1950's.
The military did not purchase any new 1911's in quantity after 1945-1946. There may have been a few purchases from Colt for special marksmanship units and such in the 1950's but that is purely speculative on my part and I have no documentary evidence to support that. There may have been some parts purchases as well, but DOD had a pretty robust inventory of 1911 parts from WWII. The last 1911A1 I was issued by the Army in 1991 (the M9 had not been fully fielded, even after Desert Storm) was a Remington-Rand that by serial number was four years older than I was !!! (I carried it proudly though, it was a WWII veteran after all).

During the pistol trials in the early 1980's Colt offered to rebuild every 1911 in the US Armed Forces Inventory and re-chamber them to 9mm for approx $100 dollars per pistol. How that would have worked and whether Colt would have made money on the deal is open to considerable speculation IMO.



I can tell you that I personally saw 1911's (not 1911A1's in service but honest to God 1911's no relief cuts in the frame in the 1980's and early 90's) and cracked frames were not uncommon. These guns were just plain worn out even then.
 
Last edited:
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
1,160
Likes
81
Location
Saugus, PRM
You should call the Commandant and tell him that the USMC doesn't know how to select a pistol...
I'll get right on that. :) I was asking the question out of ignorance. Double stack mags weren't very popular back then (broomhandle maybe?) and neither were sa/da with decockers. Easy take down levers, fewer parts, and easier production might make some other designs seem more attractive. Without knowing what the judgement criteria were, it's hard to see what advantage a 1911 has over other newer designs in the same caliber.
 
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
16,912
Likes
762
Location
BIOT
It's more accurate, it fits most hands better than a double-stack, and it does a much better job when used as a blunt force object. That's just for starters. (Those are my reasons, not necessarily the Marine Corps')
 

M60

NES Member
Rating - 100%
56   0   0
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
5,439
Likes
4,073
Location
Occupied Massachusetts
Nothing makes more sense than having enough bullet. I carried a Remington Rand 1911 when I was in southeast asia and it never malfuntioned. I'm not sure that it gets any better than big bullets that go bang ever time you need then to.
 

Zappa

Road Warrior
NES Member
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
45,114
Likes
16,567
Location
Living Free In The 603
Nothing makes more sense than having enough bullet. I carried a Remington Rand 1911 when I was in southeast asia and it never malfuntioned. I'm not sure that it gets any better than big bullets that go bang ever time you need then to.
A guy named Alvin York was pretty good with one, but they weren't all beat to hell yet in 1918. [wink]

York was charged by seven German soldiers who realized that he was operating on his own. He killed them all with his pistol.
http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/york.htm
 

mark056

NES Member
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,986
Likes
3,533
Location
Leoburg/Fitchminster area
I love both the 45acp round and the 1911, but aren't there more modern (sa/da) designs that make more sense?

A fair question. Proven reliability, and good ergonomics, great for reactive shooting, hence an ideal combat handgun, perhaps less so for a citizen or a police officer who may be using the pistol as a "threat management tool." Even that point is arguable. Simple to field strip and maintain, to detail strip a 1911 or 1911A1, the parts become the tools.

There are more sophisticated aircraft than the B52 but they are in the inventory because they work. The 1911 works....
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
59   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
69,135
Likes
28,104
The 1911 is still a piece of shit. And yet I want more of them. [rofl] (sorry, but the truth hurts.... can't love em, can't live without them. )

-Mike
 

Bill Nance

Banned
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
4,091
Likes
842
Location
God's Country, WA
I love my 1911s, but in all honesty for a non CCW piece, I'd take a P220 or SW 4506 over a stock 1911 for reliability any day of the week.

I have a LOT of money into my 1911s. Colt 1991-A1s are not known for the kind of absolute bullet proof reliability of the P220 or the 4506. If the guns the Marines are ordering are getting some kind of "pro shop" treatment, great. But if it's my ass on the line, out of the box, I wouldn't take a 1991-A1 over either of the others.
 

JuergenG

NES Member
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Messages
7,303
Likes
986
Location
3,660 miles East of Beantown
During the pistol trials in the early 1980's Colt offered to rebuild every 1911 in the US Armed Forces Inventory and re-chamber them to 9mm for approx $100 dollars per pistol. How that would have worked and whether Colt would have made money on the deal is open to considerable speculation IMO.



I can tell you that I personally saw 1911's (not 1911A1's in service but honest to God 1911's no relief cuts in the frame in the 1980's and early 90's) and cracked frames were not uncommon. These guns were just plain worn out even then.
I have a frame of one of these old warhorses, a Colt 1911 made for Uncle Sam in 1918 (it's now fitted with a new
70 series Mk. IV slide & barrel). The original slide was so worn out, that it closed with a go/no-go gauge EVERY TIME
and the barrel was shot out beyond belief.
IMHO Colt would have had to invest a lot of money into each and every pistol they would have rebuilt and
write it off as a marketing thing.
 
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
16,912
Likes
762
Location
BIOT
A fair question. Proven reliability, and good ergonomics, great for reactive shooting, hence an ideal combat handgun, perhaps less so for a citizen or a police officer who may be using the pistol as a "threat management tool." Even that point is arguable. Simple to field strip and maintain, to detail strip a 1911 or 1911A1, the parts become the tools.

There are more sophisticated aircraft than the B52 but they are in the inventory because they work. The 1911 works....
They're in the inventory because for most bombing missions they are more effective (payload-wise) and can turn around faster between sorties...
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
May 1, 2005
Messages
3,113
Likes
481
Location
Marblehead , PRM.
I spend too much time reading the internets. But I do put at least 500 rounds of 45acp through a pair of 1911s per month; mostly ball , mostly low end ammo like Blazer steel case , WWW , federal Premium - or my reloads , which garner some considerable attention for lack of beauty. Most of it in a S&W/Gunsite PD series , the rest through a Para SSP ( ... I know : BAD Para ! Bad ! ) ...

The vast majority of trainers say very unkind things about the platform. Experts from every direction say " Unreliable " , and worse. I seem to gather that the higher/mid range specialty Name Brands are unreliable , but I can't afford them, so I don't know. Mine are stock Ma approved , - the para eventually got a trij front sight.

Of course I have had malfunctions - some from reloading issues as I learn over time to be more exacting. And the rest - like ALL the rest - of my problems are magazine related. But I figure manufacturers ( S&W ) get cheap on the mags. I just threw out 3 of them that had feed lips I couldn't correct with vise grips. I buy McCormick flush fitting 8 rounders , I like the black ones. And they last a long time for me.

I am not a competitor. I am not a HSLD Tactical ninja. I would not impress anyone as a shooter but I am probably ( hopefully ) the guy you dont worry about shooting near when we don't know each other. I care enough about Self defense to try to make my plinking session time semi useful.

The past few 3 or 4 years I've mostly shot reactive targets - steel spinners , plate racks , pins , coffee cans - from a holster , between 3 to 30 feet. I make up " drills" , games. Draw and shoot one. Then 3 , then with "fast" reloading , backing up or moving sideways, etc. I go as fast as I can hit , which isn't always fast at all. Like I said - not trying to put 350 rounds into a half day's shooting.

I learned to shoot handguns on Army owned rattling 1911a1'a in the National Guard a long time ago.
I am comfortable with them and prefer them to anything else. I really do feel quite secure in my belief that if I draw my pistol to gun down a watermelon or pumpkin that my 1911 ( with mags I trust and ball ammo ) will clear it's holster , I'll not fumble much for the safety thing , and I can put 8 to 24 rounds into it and it's friends before I have a catastrophic failure.

I think some people , a few , just don't put the time into getting familiar with the guns before they dismiss them. I am not a gunfighter , or outfitting an army of 19 year olds to run an antique system. So I can afford the time to become comfortable and then proficient with my pistol.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
4,697
Likes
1,120
Location
Brookline, NH
Was the competition limited to .45 calibre handguns? I'm confused on why the Beretta wasn't selected or even in the top 3 when it beat the Colt again and again during military trials prior to being issued in 1985.
 

ntomsw

Banned
Rating - 100%
149   0   0
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
21,065
Likes
4,237
Location
New Hampshire
I've never had a single issue with the 1 1911 I own. That's not to say I won't down the road. I wish I could own 10 more. Maybe someday.
 

dwarven1

Appleseed Instructor
Dealer
NES Member
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
27,683
Likes
1,975
Location
Starksboro, VT
The Marines have decided to go with the Colt .45 pistol.
Shocked. I'm shocked.

Not.

I would love to make one of those Colts my first 1911.

I don't think Colts are Mass compliant, are they?
They are not. No Colts are.

I love both the 45acp round and the 1911, but aren't there more modern (sa/da) designs that make more sense?
None that were designed by John Browning. Seriously... just because the design is old, why is that a reason not to choose it? This is a gun that's been in continuous production for over a century - I don't think there's any other handgun that can say that. If it wasn't a decent design, I don't think it would have survived that long.

Now Colt, get Mass Compliant, bring back the Pocket Nine (designed and marketed in the late 90's it would leave the S&W Shield in the dust, IMO) the Colt .357.
Not gonna happen. Colt made the decision not to bother with the MA market by jumping through the compliance hoops; we're such a small market that I don't think they'll bother to change that. You'll have better luck getting GOAL's gun law reform passed; that's the only way we'll ever have a chance at a new pony again, I'm afraid.

Without knowing what the judgement criteria were, it's hard to see what advantage a 1911 has over other newer designs in the same caliber.
You own a Glock, don't you. [wink]

I buy McCormick flush fitting 8 rounders , I like the black ones. And they last a long time for me.
I haven't manage to wear out any of mine yet - you have?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom