U.S Army scraps testing after rifle outperforms M4A1

[dennism]

Is the Tavor enough less modular to matter? It could be converted, fairly easily, to any caliber an AR15 pattern rifle could shoot.

The cost? Yes, certainly replacing every single rifle in the US military would be a huge expense. Why do that though? Why not convert on a unit by unit basis? That's what the Israelis are doing.

I dont think it is a caliber modularity issue but a sizing one. Cant effectively adjust the LOP on the tavor. The problem with converting on a unit by unit basis remains cost. Still have existing inventories that aside from barrels and springs are mostly reusable into pretty much the foreseeable future, barring breaking them. The Tavor while an awesome rifle is hardly a revolutionary change from the AR. Is it really worth transitioning to a new platform with new labor skills needed tooling and training all the while just throwing away perfectly effective rifles?

 

[rkwjunior]

I've heard there are issues with premature wear on the m4 buffer spring,

Maybe that's why the M4 had so many stoppages in the trial, they should rectify that??. But something tells me there is another weak link......"Heat and carbon build up " (cough, cough)

 

[Lip]

Maybe that's why the M4 had so many stoppages in the trial, they should rectify that??. But something tells me there is another weak link......"Heat and carbon build up " (cough, cough)

Paraphrasing others you can tell it's a Mattel. Even the a1 is a hunk of shit. Unless its kept pristine its a jam o matic.

 

[rkwjunior]

Paraphrasing others you can tell it's a Mattel. Even the a1 is a hunk of shit. Unless its kept pristine its a jam o matic.

So what would be your choice of rifle over all others??

 

[warwickben]

So what would be your choice of rifle over all others??

 

[rocket500]

Win

 

[rkwjunior]

Not very modular.

 

[warwickben]

Not very modular.

They have built different versions. Just grab a different model.

 

[dennism]

Better off integrating a new bolt system in the AR. Make a functional short bolt such that one can collapse the stock fully.

 

[rkwjunior]

Better off integrating a new bolt system in the AR. Make a functional short bolt such that one can collapse the stock fully.

So, something like this.



Faxon ARAK 21 AK-47 upper.

 

[Cartoons]

Did I miss where Rifle "C" was revealed? Any guesses?

Tony

 

[dennism]

So, something like this.

View attachment 112409

Faxon ARAK 21 AK-47 upper.

If its functional and can advance the capabilities of current weapon systems without requiring a complete inventory overhaul sure. I wouldnt be opposed. Replacing inventory without having a problem to actually fix I do have a problem with. The military does not need rifles to win global wars. They need carriers and subs.

 

[rkwjunior]

If its functional and can advance the capabilities of current weapon systems without requiring a complete inventory overhaul sure. I wouldnt be opposed. Replacing inventory without having a problem to actually fix I do have a problem with. The military does not need rifles to win global wars. They need carriers and subs.

It's not necessarily a problem, but if a reliability improvement can be made, why not, and 20% is alot.

 

[dennism]

It's not necessarily a problem, but if a reliability improvement can be made, why not, and 20% is alot.

Why not? Limited resources. Money can be better spent elsewhere.

 

[rkwjunior]

Why not? Limited resources. Money can be better spent elsewhere.

Making excuses for the military not acknowledging that the M4 can be improved or replaced with a better rifle or modified AR.

They went from a 1911 to a Beretta, whats the big advantage there, seems like money wasted, should have been a Glock??

 

[dennism]

Making excuses for the military not acknowledging that the M4 can be improved or replaced with a better rifle or modified AR.

They went from a 1911 to a Beretta, whats the big advantage there, seems like money wasted, should have been a Glock??

Indeed it does, no big shift really. Probably had more to do with the fact that the 1911s that were fielded were ancient when they were replaced. Cant quite say that for the AR at this point. Nor does age really impact the non moving parts.

From what I understand the replacement was a political one to ensure uniformity in NATO. Uniformity obviously has its advantages but in sidearms its probably not significant.

 

[Reptile]

Did I miss where Rifle "C" was revealed? Any guesses?

Tony

Shouldn't be too hard to guess.

Everybody on the comments of the original article say it is the HK 416.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

What in the ever living **** is going on in this thread? Dragon Skin, piston AR15's? The last time I saw this much koolaid being consumed in one spot the Monseigneur was trying to convince us that we needed to work extra hard to get into heaven.

 

[exo]

What in the ever living **** is going on in this thread? Dragon Skin, piston AR15's? The last time I saw this much koolaid being consumed in one spot the Monseigneur was trying to convince us that we needed to work extra hard to get into heaven.

I hear 9mm is good for bears.

 

[PaulD]

I'm not sure changing caliber is a necessity to the average infantrymen, and from what ive seen its not exactly easy to change caliber on a Tavor like a Steyr AUG. I do think the Tavor could be a candidate i suppose, but i don't think the military wants to change the Platform.

I'm still trying to figure out why modularity matters. The length of pull came up as one example, but since most people have elbows, it doesn't seem like the biggest deal.

 

[drgrant]

Paraphrasing others you can tell it's a Mattel. Even the a1 is a hunk of shit. Unless its kept pristine its a jam o matic.

Please rejoin the discussion when your time machine comes from 1965 into the present. Thanks.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Making excuses for the military not acknowledging that the M4 can be improved or replaced with a better rifle or modified AR.

The problem is that heavy pipe hitters still kill plenty of bad people with M4s and they usually bitch about lots of other things, but mysteriously the gun isn't one of them. I wonder why that is? The advantages in cumulative gun, ammo, magazine improvements in the past 20 years have been pretty dramatic. ,

They went from a 1911 to a Beretta, whats the big advantage there, seems like money wasted, should have been a Glock??

It shoots 9mm, and its easier to service and more reliable, and capacity is almost double, depending on magazine. The 92FS sucks but its still more serviceable than your average tweak-o-matic 1911. 92s are modular and throwaway; a 1911 you have to pay guys to keep them running, if you have thousands of them. DOD pays shit for a 92FS too, compared to what they would pay for a halfway decent 1911. The 1911 does not really lend itself to mass production. (at least not using 2010+ era production techniques/manufacturing. )

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

What in the ever living **** is going on in this thread? Dragon Skin, piston AR15's? The last time I saw this much koolaid being consumed in one spot the Monseigneur was trying to convince us that we needed to work extra hard to get into heaven.

Don't you dare insert logic! You might pop the balloons of like 100 aspiring gun shop commandos; whose entire "gun lives" revolve around what "da millutary" is doing.

-Mike

 

[Da_lucche]

I remember a Delta operator in the book (it's not in the movie) Blackhawk Down complaining how the Somalis could take several 5.56 rounds from an M4 or M249 and keep fighting (they were all high and didn't feel it). One old man took 3 bursts from an M249 and got up and stumbled away.

Whereas one round from an M14 and they would stay down (one of the Delta carried an M14).

So maybe now that our enemy is typically unarmored terrorists, the 5.56 round isn't the best choice?

This was one of the reasons for the MK318 round.

Sent from my SCH-I415 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FalArAk]

This dude got hit with 2 quick bursts from a 249......he didn't stumble away!

So your point is that it took 5 shots of 5.56 from what looks like 50 yards to put this guy out of commission...How is that helping your argument ?

 

[whacko]

So your point is that it took 5 shots of 5.56 from what looks like 50 yards to put this guy out of commission...How is that helping your argument ?

Relax. I saw it as a good excuse to post a gratuitous video of a damn insurgent getting his ass shot! I Certainly don't plan on arguing with a well trained, experienced and totally awesome ballistics expert such as yourself


Anyhooooo.........a few guys seemed to like the vid which was really the point.

 

[Reptile]

Picked up by The Firearm Blog:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ent=2014-08-26&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter

 

[fshalor]

The infantry unit I was in in the guard had teh M60 through at least 1996..........things have changed though........guard units don't get the hand me downs anymore now that it has gon from a strategic reserve to an operational force. However with the current budget who knows what the future holds for the national guard.......in a few years it may go back to begging at the table for scraps.

No scraps left... They all will go to police forces.

 

[Dench]

Why not? Limited resources. Money can be better spent elsewhere.

limited resources? in our military?

dude.

 

[goodlife30]

So your point is that it took 5 shots of 5.56 from what looks like 50 yards to put this guy out of commission...How is that helping your argument ?

Errr. One shot one kill is sniper stuff. Totally different than wacking a guy from a hide. If you shoot someone if the toe 8 times with a 308 he will still be alive. That 556 cracked that melon open good. Nothing like having your friends scrape your brain off the street. 249 is a suppressive fire system. That why you get 200 round drum mags with it. You pound lead into targets to either suppresse them or waste them. So five rounds?